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[Music]

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the planets puppet-masters on my shirt

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you have a plan it's clearly maybe

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something there beyond the realm of man

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until we've thoroughly tested every last

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close just if you find the more you

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will we be

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we know the lying to us just don't know

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what to green where would we be without

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[Music]

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all right higher side chatters despite

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our frustrations with our societal

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system and the unfairness of it all we

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still don't really understand what

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life's about anyway why do we come here

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and what happens when we die is our

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manifestation on earth a short practice

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life to make the assessment with which

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we're sorted out for our eternal bliss

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or damnation as the church would have us

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believe

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are we students in a cosmic school

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recycle to this plane until we've

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learned the lessons needed to advance

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beyond the reincarnation cycle or are we

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just the meat machines modern science

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says we are while some of the available

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options seem more likely than others

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these are not easy questions but if you

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examine them deeply you'll find that the

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scope of human experience does have just

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enough breadcrumbs baked into it - let

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us know there's something waiting at the

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end of the earthly rainbow psychedelics

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lucid dreaming precognition children who

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remember past lives near-death

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experiences and yes even the power of

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prayer and intention all things that

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make us wonder about that other side and

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today's guest is no different his name

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is dr. Scott Cole Baba and not only has

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he dedicated his own life to keeping

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people on this side of reality as a

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physician in Wheaton Illinois but

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plagued by the mystery of it all he

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dedicated years to interviewing other

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doctors about the odd and miraculous

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experiences they've had with the

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patients in their practice and turned

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the best of them into the book

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physicians untold stories which walks

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the reader through the miraculous

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experiences doctors are hesitant to

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share with anyone well luckily he's here

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to share them with us boldly going after

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the big questions a bona fide life saver

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who's not afraid to examine the abyss

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dr. Scott Cole Baba

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welcome to the higher side thanks Gregg

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it's great to be here yeah thanks for

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being here you did a great job with this

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book I do love a good compilation and

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the stories that you and the 26 doctors

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in the book are willing to tell

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definitely make a great contribution to

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ahem the mystery of death and I suppose

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spirit allies for lack of a better label

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and to kick this off here tell us about

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the road to writing this book because I

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do think it's a great idea and I

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understand this was a pretty in-depth

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exploration with way more interviews

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that didn't make the cut than did right

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yeah I probably talked to 200 Docs and

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lots and lots of stories but the stories

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I wanted to include were the ones that

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gave me goosebumps or made me tear up

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not from sadness but more from emotion

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and so if I listen to a doc story at 5

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a.m. in the morning and get goosebumps

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that's a story that was going in the

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book and so there are about 30 of those

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26 Doc's and maybe 30 stories you know

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I'm just an ordinary doc I see regular

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patients I'm an internist and we know

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annoy for over 30 years I'm not a book

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writer I'm not a journalist at all but

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something just got to me when I started

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to hear some of these stories and

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doctors don't really talk about these

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kinds of things they talk about their

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golf game or their potassium levels or

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who will in the renal failure who died

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or whatever these are the kind of things

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that we don't talk about when I started

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hearing some of these stories I was

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really taken back because these are very

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moving experiences that doctors have and

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I discovered that the docs don't like to

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talk about him nor did I because we were

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all afraid that if we talked about these

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stories in public people would think

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we're crazy and not want to come to a

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doctor who has a spiritual or a

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premonition or a dream kind of a story

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but the doctors did share them and

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ultimately they agreed and I was able to

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put their names on every story except

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for one one doctor had an experience

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that involves his own illness and he

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didn't want the illness to be revealed

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anyone and I think the reason that they

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shared these stories at the risk of

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their careers was because of what I

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called them in the book and that is

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sappy do-gooders most doctors least the

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ones that I'm working with are trying to

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help the world trying to save lives

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trying to do some good for people every

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single day and I think they realized

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that these experiences and these stories

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would give people hope and peace and

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it's kind of a crazy world out there and

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I think they recognize that if they

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could help a couple P

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with the story and help them realize

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that there's something else out there

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that there's life after this life that

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they would accomplish their goal and

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they would risk their careers to do that

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hmm I think it's pretty noble and like I

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said all the doctors except for one

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we're able to put their names on to

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their stories well it is Noble I mean

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words like woowoo and pseudoscience

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these terms they really do hurt our

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ability to share our own experiences

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especially when there's a career at risk

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and it's kind of sad because I do think

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these experiences are kind of baked into

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reality that you get just enough they

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almost seem perfectly engineered to show

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you just enough without giving you the

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whole keys of the castle and the fact

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that we don't talk about them really

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hurts that baked-in mechanism from doing

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what I think it's kind of supposed to do

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I think you're right and I think Gila

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doctors and the medical profession is

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realizing that and I think more and more

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were reading about these kinds of things

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and one of the ER Doc's that I was

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talking with was telling me that it's

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now in their literature that these kinds

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of experiences especially in the

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emergency room where people have

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life-threatening emergencies we're

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seeing more and more stories about

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near-death experiences and visions and

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things like that so I think it's coming

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out into the open and I'm glad it is one

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of the things that happened to the docs

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and myself after we wrote these stories

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and publish the book was that people

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came out and said thank you for doing

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this

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we had no criticism no one left my

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practice because they thought I was

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weird

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and no one left any of the doctors

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practices and their practices are still

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doing well I think we were really

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surprised that when people read these

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stories and I've been speaking quite a

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bit and when people hear the stories

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they say thank you for bringing this out

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because I've had a story like that too

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and I'm convinced that most people and

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most families have had some unusual

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stories some unusual incidences that

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they have been afraid to share and when

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they hear that these doctors have had

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similar experiences they share them too

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and I've experienced that in my exam

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rooms other places where people are

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sharing their stories which i think is

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pretty neat it is neat and it's a

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curious thing why our culture is so

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in a way to discourage people from

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talking about these experiences

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especially that this culture of fear

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exists somewhere I guess it's injected

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into the communities that would have

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this sort of insight and keep them from

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sharing but the positive aspect is that

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it really is just a perception however

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it's arrived at because when you

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actually come out and put yourself out

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there which is always a risk yeah you

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really aren't disbarred from the medical

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profession so that's a beautiful thing

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and your book is broken down into four

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categories divine intervention death in

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the afterlife miraculous healing and

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prayer and of these the death and the

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afterlife section was definitely a

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favorite of mine because when people

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actually died in the care of a doctor

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and are brought back then they have

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these details about their own

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resuscitation often seen it from a

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vantage point that is above the room are

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different from where their body is I

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mean that is pretty fascinating it

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really is and that's one of the stories

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what got me involved with this book

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because one of my good friends Dave

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mochel ran up to me on the floor in the

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hospital he grabbed my arm and said it's

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cut off could I tell you this incredible

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story that happened to our mutual

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patient and I said okay Dave tell me the

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story and he said well I can't tell it

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to you here because some might hear me

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so we went into an empty patient room

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and he told me about our mutual patient

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mary who had a ankle problem he was

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going to operate on her ankle and as

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they were putting her to sleep and give

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her in the pre-op antibiotics she

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arrested because of the antibiotic it

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was found out later

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and so flatlined no pulse no respiration

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no response to pain she was basically

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dead and they called the code in the ER

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and when that happens everyone rushes in

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from the ORS next door one of the people

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that rushed in was a tech that had

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pretty bright red hair underneath his

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operating room cap and he started to do

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CPR and the compressions weren't

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adequate enough to provide a pulse and

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dr. bocal recognized that and he was in

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charge of the code so since the code is

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really not a very polite affair it's a

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life and death situation he actually

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pushed to the side he stumbled away and

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dr. mochel then took over and started to

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do the CPR and did it ethical love that

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with some medications and the CPR she

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came back but wasn't conscious until the

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next day

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so the cardiologist took over and they

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recognized that it was the antibiotic

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that caused her an arrest and after a

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couple days she recovered totally it was

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ready to go back home and doctor mochel

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wanted to give her some final discharge

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instructions and while he was doing that

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Mary interrupted him and she said thank

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you for saving my life and dr. mogul is

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a pretty humble guy and he simply said

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well that was a team effort everyone

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pitched in and she said no no I saw you

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push that guy with the red hair aside

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and I saw you'd start the CPR but that

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point dr. McCall wasn't quite sure what

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to say he sat down because he had weak

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knees and she went on to tell him all

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the details of the code and he said well

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how could you have known that and she

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said when I arrested I rose up to the

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top of the room and I was able to see

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00:10:26,610 --> 00:10:23,950
everything that happened in the code I

275
00:10:28,110 --> 00:10:26,620
was able to see you start the CPR I was

276
00:10:30,180 --> 00:10:28,120
able to see the nurses and then she

277
00:10:32,820 --> 00:10:30,190
described what had happened in the exact

278
00:10:34,380 --> 00:10:32,830
detail and she said when I was there my

279
00:10:36,030 --> 00:10:34,390
grandmother came to me who had been dead

280
00:10:38,070 --> 00:10:36,040
for a long time and told me it was not

281
00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:38,080
my time to go that I'd have to come back

282
00:10:42,450 --> 00:10:40,450
but if I was a good and kind person

283
00:10:45,510 --> 00:10:42,460
she'd save a place for me in heaven and

284
00:10:47,130 --> 00:10:45,520
so Mary was really not the kindest

285
00:10:49,230 --> 00:10:47,140
person in the world before this you

286
00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:49,240
would always dread having her come into

287
00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:50,710
your exam room because she'd always have

288
00:10:54,090 --> 00:10:52,570
something bad to say like gee how come

289
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:54,100
you're late there why didn't you fill my

290
00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:55,650
prescription or things like that

291
00:11:00,420 --> 00:10:58,090
afterwards she was the nicest and

292
00:11:02,670 --> 00:11:00,430
kindest person she'd bake us cookies and

293
00:11:04,290 --> 00:11:02,680
she'd do all kinds of nice things for

294
00:11:05,730 --> 00:11:04,300
everyone that she met and she was able

295
00:11:07,830 --> 00:11:05,740
to help her widowed father a great deal

296
00:11:10,260 --> 00:11:07,840
and so I called the story

297
00:11:12,540 --> 00:11:10,270
Mary's Christmas Carol because it was

298
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:12,550
like the Scrooge story where Scrooge

299
00:11:16,830 --> 00:11:13,930
came back and was a totally different

300
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:16,840
person and just like Mary was so when

301
00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:19,450
dr. mochel heard this story he had to

302
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:21,910
tell me because was our patient I asked

303
00:11:25,710 --> 00:11:23,770
him who he told the story to before and

304
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:25,720
he said just my wife no one else has

305
00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:27,130
learned about this story because they

306
00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:29,920
think it was too crazy and so I finally

307
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:31,720
was able to convince him to help me

308
00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:33,610
publish the story but that was what got

309
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:36,160
me started I think with the book and and

310
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:38,170
the recalled stories that happened to

311
00:11:42,780 --> 00:11:40,720
fall into my lap at the same time made

312
00:11:44,190 --> 00:11:42,790
me decide to go ahead and publish that

313
00:11:45,930 --> 00:11:44,200
because that was just such an incredible

314
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:45,940
story from one of the most conservative

315
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:48,490
straight-arrow country doctors that I

316
00:11:52,540 --> 00:11:50,770
can think of dr. mogul and he couldn't

317
00:11:54,460 --> 00:11:52,550
explain this scientifically he tried

318
00:11:57,699 --> 00:11:54,470
it's best but this was something just

319
00:12:00,130 --> 00:11:57,709
beyond his explanation mm-hmm yes and I

320
00:12:02,530 --> 00:12:00,140
love that you did give the name Mary's

321
00:12:04,810 --> 00:12:02,540
Christmas Carol and draw that Scrooge

322
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:04,820
analogy because it is so true and that

323
00:12:10,180 --> 00:12:07,490
happens in a lot of cases that people

324
00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:10,190
come away from these things transformed

325
00:12:14,980 --> 00:12:12,950
and you know you can kind of see how

326
00:12:16,630 --> 00:12:14,990
that would be given the fact that you're

327
00:12:19,329 --> 00:12:16,640
having a near-death experience and

328
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:19,339
you're now lucky to be alive but it's

329
00:12:23,860 --> 00:12:20,570
just kind of interesting that people

330
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:23,870
have that universal tilt towards a

331
00:12:28,750 --> 00:12:26,720
positive polarity afterwards that's true

332
00:12:30,730 --> 00:12:28,760
and you know I'm a busy doc I've got a

333
00:12:32,620 --> 00:12:30,740
bunch of kids to raise and so I never

334
00:12:35,050 --> 00:12:32,630
read very many stories about near-death

335
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:35,060
experiences so after right in the book I

336
00:12:39,010 --> 00:12:37,130
realized that it's fairly common and

337
00:12:41,079 --> 00:12:39,020
it's in the literature that's very

338
00:12:43,090 --> 00:12:41,089
similar to the way Mary described it so

339
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:43,100
I was surprised and pleased to see that

340
00:12:47,829 --> 00:12:45,040
this is not an unusual circumstance

341
00:12:50,110 --> 00:12:47,839
mm-hmm and how common would you say that

342
00:12:52,780 --> 00:12:50,120
Mary's situation is it is my favorite

343
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:52,790
story in the book but how much data do

344
00:12:56,350 --> 00:12:54,890
we have collected I mean not a lot is

345
00:12:58,600 --> 00:12:56,360
there any way to tell what kind of

346
00:13:00,250 --> 00:12:58,610
percentage of people who undergo a

347
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:00,260
resuscitation have this sort of

348
00:13:05,470 --> 00:13:03,050
experience I don't know if we have any

349
00:13:08,590 --> 00:13:05,480
statistics but I think many Doc's and

350
00:13:10,990 --> 00:13:08,600
many authors are collecting data and

351
00:13:12,819 --> 00:13:11,000
information awesomeness so there's some

352
00:13:14,590 --> 00:13:12,829
repositories in the country where we're

353
00:13:16,569 --> 00:13:14,600
collecting more and more information

354
00:13:18,910 --> 00:13:16,579
about these and other kinds of medical

355
00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:18,920
miracles that you simply cannot explain

356
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:20,959
and I think it's good that they're doing

357
00:13:26,650 --> 00:13:24,410
that it is good and I guess one question

358
00:13:29,530 --> 00:13:26,660
I always have to try to hone in on that

359
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:29,540
information is when we're declared dead

360
00:13:35,410 --> 00:13:32,000
it's usually related to cease brain

361
00:13:37,420 --> 00:13:35,420
activity or the heart stopping does one

362
00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:37,430
seem to be a better catalyst for an

363
00:13:41,340 --> 00:13:39,649
experience than the other when a person

364
00:13:45,220 --> 00:13:41,350
is brought back anything like that I

365
00:13:47,380 --> 00:13:45,230
don't know I know in Mary's case we had

366
00:13:49,870 --> 00:13:47,390
no way of determining what her brain

367
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:49,880
function was that would require EEG and

368
00:13:53,860 --> 00:13:51,680
things like that but we can see her

369
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:53,870
cardiac function so I think most of the

370
00:13:57,430 --> 00:13:55,250
time when you have a situations like

371
00:13:59,920 --> 00:13:57,440
this I think it's mostly the heart that

372
00:14:02,110 --> 00:13:59,930
we recognize has stopped and then

373
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:02,120
there's no bodily function that we can

374
00:14:05,350 --> 00:14:04,250
determine there's no response to pain or

375
00:14:07,749 --> 00:14:05,360
anything else so

376
00:14:09,970 --> 00:14:07,759
her case the brain wasn't dead but it

377
00:14:12,429 --> 00:14:09,980
was approaching that and after the brain

378
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:12,439
is not simple come back I think again

379
00:14:15,819 --> 00:14:13,850
most of the time it's gonna be a cardiac

380
00:14:16,929 --> 00:14:15,829
arrest that we recognize simply because

381
00:14:19,059 --> 00:14:16,939
we don't have a person hooked up to an

382
00:14:21,429 --> 00:14:19,069
EEG machine mm-hmm

383
00:14:22,660 --> 00:14:21,439
fair enough another thing that's

384
00:14:25,449 --> 00:14:22,670
interesting to me about these

385
00:14:28,569 --> 00:14:25,459
experiences is that it doesn't seem like

386
00:14:30,999 --> 00:14:28,579
it's a choice to come back or not in

387
00:14:32,530 --> 00:14:31,009
terms of you know in those moments of

388
00:14:34,989 --> 00:14:32,540
being between the worlds

389
00:14:37,179 --> 00:14:34,999
some people come back and it doesn't

390
00:14:39,429 --> 00:14:37,189
seem like the choices offered to them

391
00:14:42,609 --> 00:14:39,439
necessarily on that other side but the

392
00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:42,619
entities they encounter oftentimes dunno

393
00:14:47,650 --> 00:14:45,110
they often say hey you know it's great

394
00:14:50,019 --> 00:14:47,660
to see you I'll save you a place like

395
00:14:51,579 --> 00:14:50,029
you mentioned in Mary's case or you know

396
00:14:53,410 --> 00:14:51,589
work you know you're gonna have to go

397
00:14:55,449 --> 00:14:53,420
back for a while it's not your time

398
00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:55,459
these sorts of things obviously they

399
00:14:59,410 --> 00:14:57,290
come to the situation with the sort of

400
00:15:01,949 --> 00:14:59,420
insight and wisdom that the person

401
00:15:04,419 --> 00:15:01,959
doesn't have in their kind of chaotic

402
00:15:06,819 --> 00:15:04,429
discombobulated state going between the

403
00:15:08,650 --> 00:15:06,829
worlds but that's another thing that I

404
00:15:10,689 --> 00:15:08,660
just think is interesting is it seems to

405
00:15:13,329 --> 00:15:10,699
be kind of up to chance or up to

406
00:15:15,189 --> 00:15:13,339
basically the people in your position as

407
00:15:18,909 --> 00:15:15,199
to if they come back or not and they

408
00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:18,919
really have no say in most cases we've

409
00:15:23,650 --> 00:15:21,230
had some ducks that have had near-death

410
00:15:25,799 --> 00:15:23,660
experiences that have had the choice of

411
00:15:28,659 --> 00:15:25,809
whether they stay or whether they leave

412
00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:28,669
one that comes to mind was a family

413
00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:31,620
practice doc Bob Cornell

414
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:33,720
so we had a couple of issues switched

415
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:36,330
over to the phone but you were just

416
00:15:41,420 --> 00:15:39,120
about to maybe tell a story that did

417
00:15:43,310 --> 00:15:41,430
offer a situation where a person had

418
00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:43,320
some kind of choice or autonomy over

419
00:15:48,620 --> 00:15:46,050
their choice to stay or go yeah there's

420
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:48,630
a interesting story from John Method who

421
00:15:53,060 --> 00:15:50,730
was the gynecologist a good friend and

422
00:15:55,970 --> 00:15:53,070
he was good friends with a family

423
00:15:58,910 --> 00:15:55,980
practice doctor he did consults for Bob

424
00:16:00,440 --> 00:15:58,920
Cornell they would meet in the doctors

425
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:00,450
lounge which is a great place to meet in

426
00:16:03,380 --> 00:16:01,530
the morning because they're wonderful

427
00:16:05,570 --> 00:16:03,390
things there for doctors like doughnuts

428
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:05,580
and coffee and so they'd meet every

429
00:16:08,630 --> 00:16:07,110
morning and they'd talk about their

430
00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:08,640
favorite things and Bob Cornell's

431
00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,500
favorite thing beside his family was

432
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:12,720
fishing and so Bob would talk about

433
00:16:17,270 --> 00:16:15,330
fishing and he pretty much knew every

434
00:16:18,980 --> 00:16:17,280
lure that needed to be used in every

435
00:16:20,780 --> 00:16:18,990
Lake and every body of water in the

436
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:20,790
United States in some foreign countries

437
00:16:24,860 --> 00:16:22,530
too he was really an avid fisherman they

438
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:24,870
loved fishing and so they would talk

439
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:26,730
about fishing almost every time they got

440
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:28,290
together in the morning before rounds

441
00:16:32,330 --> 00:16:31,050
and one day John mesud went to the

442
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:32,340
factors lounge and didn't see Bob

443
00:16:36,260 --> 00:16:34,050
Cornell there and then he found out that

444
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:36,270
he had a massive stroke he was in the

445
00:16:42,530 --> 00:16:37,110
ICU

446
00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:42,540
and he was in a deep coma unresponsive

447
00:16:45,980 --> 00:16:44,700
and he talked with the intensivists

448
00:16:48,620 --> 00:16:45,990
there was taking care of him and

449
00:16:49,820 --> 00:16:48,630
intensivist told him that Bob had a such

450
00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:49,830
a massive stroke that he probably

451
00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:51,540
wouldn't come back they thought he was

452
00:16:54,650 --> 00:16:53,190
pretty close to being brain dead and

453
00:16:56,540 --> 00:16:54,660
that they were going to give him a

454
00:16:58,490 --> 00:16:56,550
couple days to see what happened and if

455
00:16:59,900 --> 00:16:58,500
he didn't come back in three days they

456
00:17:03,320 --> 00:16:59,910
were going to pull the plug and let him

457
00:17:05,810 --> 00:17:03,330
go and so meza never realized how close

458
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:05,820
they had become and how much he was

459
00:17:09,949 --> 00:17:08,610
upset about Bob Cornell stroke and he

460
00:17:11,570 --> 00:17:09,959
didn't really know what to do it felt

461
00:17:13,310 --> 00:17:11,580
pretty hopeless and you've probably had

462
00:17:15,050 --> 00:17:13,320
situations where you have a situation

463
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:15,060
you'd like to do something but you don't

464
00:17:19,910 --> 00:17:16,740
know what to do and you really can't do

465
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:19,920
anything so doctor Meza decided that he

466
00:17:24,380 --> 00:17:22,410
would do something real strange and he

467
00:17:27,290 --> 00:17:24,390
decided to move his chair close to Bob's

468
00:17:29,450 --> 00:17:27,300
face he closed the curtain on a little

469
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:29,460
cubicle where he's located and he

470
00:17:32,750 --> 00:17:31,170
started to tell him stories he was quiet

471
00:17:33,890 --> 00:17:32,760
at first then a little bit louder

472
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:33,900
because he didn't want anyone to hear

473
00:17:37,610 --> 00:17:36,090
how many told my story about fishing in

474
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:37,620
the Mackenzie River which is in Canada

475
00:17:42,530 --> 00:17:41,010
flying in and a float plane and catching

476
00:17:44,210 --> 00:17:42,540
as many Grayling's as they could

477
00:17:45,210 --> 00:17:44,220
possibly imagine about a hundred I think

478
00:17:47,669 --> 00:17:45,220
they caught one day

479
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:47,679
there was a catch in relation every day

480
00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:49,330
you would tell more of that story about

481
00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:52,150
the McKenzie River fishing episode and

482
00:17:56,610 --> 00:17:54,820
it was really quite a good story and his

483
00:17:58,500 --> 00:17:56,620
wife thought he was crazy because why

484
00:18:00,210 --> 00:17:58,510
would he be telling a story to a person

485
00:18:02,850 --> 00:18:00,220
who was brain-dead and was going to be

486
00:18:05,010 --> 00:18:02,860
unplugged in a couple days well the

487
00:18:07,649 --> 00:18:05,020
third day when it was time for Bob

488
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:07,659
Cornell to die John Meza walked into the

489
00:18:11,730 --> 00:18:09,850
room and realized he was too late the

490
00:18:13,649 --> 00:18:11,740
room was dark that bed had been taken

491
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:13,659
down and he realized that Bob Cornell

492
00:18:18,779 --> 00:18:16,000
had died and he went to the nurse

493
00:18:22,049 --> 00:18:18,789
he said when did dr. Cornell die and she

494
00:18:23,820 --> 00:18:22,059
said well she can left John Messer was

495
00:18:25,649 --> 00:18:23,830
little taken aback by her laughter and

496
00:18:28,409 --> 00:18:25,659
she would he didn't die he woke up

497
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:28,419
yesterday and he looked great and so by

498
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:30,250
the time they connected again because

499
00:18:33,930 --> 00:18:31,840
Bob Cornell was sent off to rehab pretty

500
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:33,940
quickly they were in the doctors lounge

501
00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:37,330
again dr. Cornell came up to John mess

502
00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:39,340
and he said thank you so much for

503
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:41,289
telling me those stories and that took

504
00:18:44,610 --> 00:18:43,330
John method aback because he did realize

505
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:44,620
they'd be hurt him and he said you were

506
00:18:48,630 --> 00:18:46,510
the only one that talked with me really

507
00:18:50,820 --> 00:18:48,640
share anything and those stories gave me

508
00:18:53,399 --> 00:18:50,830
encouragement and dr. Meza doesn't know

509
00:18:56,250 --> 00:18:53,409
for sure but he was wondering when a

510
00:18:58,169 --> 00:18:56,260
person gets so close to death and has a

511
00:19:01,860 --> 00:18:58,179
choice of coming or going

512
00:19:04,980 --> 00:19:01,870
if those stories kept Bob Cornell going

513
00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:04,990
and kept him thinking that maybe he

514
00:19:09,659 --> 00:19:07,870
could come back and so he survived he

515
00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:09,669
lived a long time after that he

516
00:19:14,159 --> 00:19:11,919
ultimately died of other causes the

517
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:14,169
unfortunate thing is Bob Cornell never

518
00:19:19,110 --> 00:19:16,450
made it to the Mackenzie River to fish

519
00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:19,120
with the grayling at least not miss life

520
00:19:25,950 --> 00:19:22,480
so John message is wondering whether

521
00:19:28,649 --> 00:19:25,960
these stories actually did keep him on

522
00:19:30,930 --> 00:19:28,659
this side of the veil so he didn't cross

523
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:30,940
over to the other side no one will know

524
00:19:34,830 --> 00:19:32,890
for sure but I think there are times

525
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:34,840
when people do have a choice and there's

526
00:19:39,299 --> 00:19:37,210
a fine line between death and living and

527
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:39,309
I think some people can hold on for a

528
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:41,890
while till someone comes the situations

529
00:19:46,289 --> 00:19:44,320
that we see that that happens to the

530
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:46,299
mother or the son is coming from

531
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:48,970
California and they hold on until the

532
00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:51,250
son or some relative gets there and I

533
00:19:54,659 --> 00:19:53,320
think the same is true maybe for life

534
00:19:56,789 --> 00:19:54,669
and death I think some people can

535
00:19:59,190 --> 00:19:56,799
actually decide it's not my time I'm

536
00:20:00,900 --> 00:19:59,200
going to come back we'll never know

537
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:00,910
that's true and I definitely don't think

538
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:02,890
there's any singular answer and that

539
00:20:07,710 --> 00:20:05,650
phenomenon of holding on is really

540
00:20:10,140 --> 00:20:07,720
compelling as well it's just like I

541
00:20:12,180 --> 00:20:10,150
guess when it comes to that moment of

542
00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:12,190
death we do have a little flexibility

543
00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:15,190
because people do it it's just like we

544
00:20:20,610 --> 00:20:17,590
don't really know how we beat our heart

545
00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:20,620
we don't really know how we breathe but

546
00:20:25,470 --> 00:20:22,960
I guess in the same way we don't really

547
00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:25,480
know how we let go but when the time

548
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:29,830
comes to do it we seem to be able to and

549
00:20:33,450 --> 00:20:31,600
I think doctors recognize that and we

550
00:20:36,660 --> 00:20:33,460
all had situations where people are

551
00:20:38,610 --> 00:20:36,670
holding on for some event maybe there's

552
00:20:41,550 --> 00:20:38,620
a birthday that they're holding on for a

553
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:41,560
special anniversary or a relative coming

554
00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:43,810
from somewhere else in the country those

555
00:20:47,490 --> 00:20:46,240
are all situations where every doctor

556
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:47,500
I'm sure that's been in practice for a

557
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,050
while has seen people that are near

558
00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:52,480
death holding on until that person comes

559
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:54,070
and then they let go and then they allow

560
00:21:00,030 --> 00:20:56,170
themselves to die so there's something

561
00:21:02,130 --> 00:21:00,040
to that - I'm convinced mm-hmm and

562
00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:02,140
another story that was one of my

563
00:21:07,350 --> 00:21:05,470
favorites in the book is the one get

564
00:21:08,850 --> 00:21:07,360
your paddles can you tell us about that

565
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:08,860
one because in terms of details about

566
00:21:13,230 --> 00:21:11,530
those beans on the other side that one

567
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:13,240
seemed to have the richest amount of

568
00:21:18,570 --> 00:21:16,450
detail yeah this is Fred Bo Hoffer who

569
00:21:21,390 --> 00:21:18,580
was an ER doc and fred has been around

570
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:21,400
for a while and he was working one night

571
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:23,290
when a ambulance came with a fellow that

572
00:21:28,020 --> 00:21:25,090
obviously was having a heart attack and

573
00:21:30,330 --> 00:21:28,030
he arrested in the ambulance and when

574
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:30,340
dr. Bo Hoffert decided to go out to the

575
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:32,050
ambulance and as soon as he realized

576
00:21:36,060 --> 00:21:34,240
that he asked the text to get the

577
00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:36,070
paddles out and shock him and they

578
00:21:40,020 --> 00:21:38,260
shocked him back to a regular rhythm he

579
00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:40,030
partially woke up and they started

580
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:42,190
transporting him to the cardiac room in

581
00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:44,650
the ER and then the way there he

582
00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:46,510
arrested again they got the paddles out

583
00:21:50,490 --> 00:21:48,580
and shocked him again and then this

584
00:21:52,620 --> 00:21:50,500
happened a third time just as he got

585
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:52,630
into the cardiac room and finally they

586
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:54,370
were able to get him on some IV

587
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:56,170
medication that kept his heart stable

588
00:21:59,580 --> 00:21:57,730
and he didn't arrest anymore he woke up

589
00:22:01,740 --> 00:21:59,590
and when he woke up

590
00:22:03,330 --> 00:22:01,750
doctor Bo hopper tried to count some a

591
00:22:05,220 --> 00:22:03,340
little bit about know you must have

592
00:22:06,690 --> 00:22:05,230
really been a tough time and this must

593
00:22:08,220 --> 00:22:06,700
really be scary for you you're going to

594
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:08,230
be okay now and he said no I wasn't

595
00:22:12,210 --> 00:22:10,690
afraid at all and dr. bull Hoffa was

596
00:22:12,540 --> 00:22:12,220
kind of surprised and he said well why

597
00:22:14,580 --> 00:22:12,550
not

598
00:22:17,850 --> 00:22:14,590
you say well the first time I arrested

599
00:22:19,410 --> 00:22:17,860
my father came to me and he walked into

600
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:19,420
the room and I could see him and it was

601
00:22:25,470 --> 00:22:22,090
pretty reassuring and then the next time

602
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:25,480
he was joined by my wife the third time

603
00:22:29,790 --> 00:22:27,610
they were joined by my brother and they

604
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:29,800
didn't say anything to me but they just

605
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:31,510
were there and it was really comforting

606
00:22:35,580 --> 00:22:34,090
to see them all and dr. boho asked him

607
00:22:37,650 --> 00:22:35,590
if they were going to be coming to visit

608
00:22:41,060 --> 00:22:37,660
him in the hospital and he said no

609
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:41,070
they've all been dead for a long time so

610
00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:44,170
dr. bull Hoffer thought maybe what was

611
00:22:50,610 --> 00:22:46,630
happening there is he was basically dead

612
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:50,620
and these spirits came to him to take

613
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:54,310
him back he recovered and lived but dr.

614
00:22:57,630 --> 00:22:56,170
bull Hoffa was saying that in the ER

615
00:23:00,540 --> 00:22:57,640
literature this is another unusual

616
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:00,550
circumstance where people have passed to

617
00:23:05,490 --> 00:23:02,770
the other side and then are brought back

618
00:23:07,170 --> 00:23:05,500
they have visions or see people that

619
00:23:09,390 --> 00:23:07,180
come presumably to take them to heaven

620
00:23:11,610 --> 00:23:09,400
or take them to wherever you go when you

621
00:23:13,470 --> 00:23:11,620
pass through this life yeah so that was

622
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:13,480
kind of a interesting story for me to

623
00:23:18,150 --> 00:23:16,450
hear yeah like what is that about it's

624
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:18,160
so weird I'm sure you've had a lot of

625
00:23:21,540 --> 00:23:19,690
similar stories that were left on the

626
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:21,550
cutting-room floor but when you go over

627
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:23,770
the ones that contain the meeting of

628
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:26,170
dead relatives are there factors that

629
00:23:30,780 --> 00:23:29,200
repeat more often than not are there any

630
00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:30,790
times where they're given information

631
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:32,830
about the purpose of life or what's on

632
00:23:36,270 --> 00:23:34,690
the other side in that spirit realm is

633
00:23:38,490 --> 00:23:36,280
there any kind of pattern to it would

634
00:23:41,310 --> 00:23:38,500
you say I don't know if there's any

635
00:23:43,950 --> 00:23:41,320
pattern to it I think the relatives that

636
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:43,960
come back try to provide some counseling

637
00:23:48,210 --> 00:23:46,510
some comfort and I don't know if anyone

638
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:48,220
and at least the stories that we have

639
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:52,090
were anything about advice and so forth

640
00:23:56,730 --> 00:23:55,090
there's one that I particularly like the

641
00:23:57,150 --> 00:23:56,740
grandma Hamlin story to remember that

642
00:24:02,970 --> 00:23:57,160
one

643
00:24:05,070 --> 00:24:02,980
gynecology friends Jack Heisler actually

644
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:05,080
delivered two of our children so he's

645
00:24:08,370 --> 00:24:06,850
been pretty active in the community has

646
00:24:09,930 --> 00:24:08,380
delivered thousands and thousands of

647
00:24:12,810 --> 00:24:09,940
kids I'm sure in this lifetime in his

648
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:12,820
career and his wife they had I think

649
00:24:17,250 --> 00:24:14,530
eight children his wife was delivering

650
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:17,260
their fifth child and during the

651
00:24:21,450 --> 00:24:19,090
delivery she ran into troubles and

652
00:24:23,130 --> 00:24:21,460
despite dr. Heisler who's a gynecologist

653
00:24:25,410 --> 00:24:23,140
and his partner who was doing the

654
00:24:26,350 --> 00:24:25,420
delivery gram O'Hanlon who was a midwife

655
00:24:29,230 --> 00:24:26,360
came into the

656
00:24:31,450 --> 00:24:29,240
room and save Jones life and the story

657
00:24:33,580 --> 00:24:31,460
is something like this

658
00:24:36,580 --> 00:24:33,590
Graham O'Hanlon came from Ireland and

659
00:24:38,650 --> 00:24:36,590
was a midwife in Chicagoland area for

660
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:38,660
quite some time she was kind of the

661
00:24:42,610 --> 00:24:40,310
spiritual leader of the family every

662
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:42,620
time that someone couldn't pay she would

663
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:44,690
do it for free she would take money and

664
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:46,880
food to people that were poor in the

665
00:24:52,180 --> 00:24:49,760
city and she was an example of a great

666
00:24:54,340 --> 00:24:52,190
spirit to everyone she ultimately got

667
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:54,350
older and had to retire and when she did

668
00:24:59,200 --> 00:24:57,410
she lived with Joan's mother when Joan

669
00:25:01,060 --> 00:24:59,210
was a little girl and Joan would say if

670
00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:01,070
I got in trouble with my mother if I

671
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:02,960
made it to Grandma Hanlan's lap I'd be

672
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:06,530
safe and so they became incredibly good

673
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:08,450
friends they had a phenomenal love and a

674
00:25:13,540 --> 00:25:10,370
friendship for each other as a grandma

675
00:25:16,180 --> 00:25:13,550
and Joan and so when John was delivering

676
00:25:17,740 --> 00:25:16,190
the baby the baby came out okay

677
00:25:19,270 --> 00:25:17,750
everything was fine but afterwards she

678
00:25:21,580 --> 00:25:19,280
started to experience some pain with the

679
00:25:23,380 --> 00:25:21,590
afterbirth and so forth so he decided to

680
00:25:25,180 --> 00:25:23,390
give her a drug called tri Lane which

681
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:25,190
was administered by mask and it puts a

682
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:27,290
person into a deep sleep and so they

683
00:25:30,820 --> 00:25:28,850
were about ready to put the mask of the

684
00:25:32,830 --> 00:25:30,830
Tri Lane over Jones faced allow her to

685
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:32,840
get some relief from the pain and put

686
00:25:36,970 --> 00:25:34,910
her to sleep and Grandma Helen walked

687
00:25:39,460 --> 00:25:36,980
into the room with her typical polkadot

688
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:39,470
dress and a white sweater vest white

689
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:41,600
hair up in a bun and lady shoes and the

690
00:25:45,370 --> 00:25:43,520
foot of bed and shook her head that Joan

691
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:45,380
should not use to take the trilane and

692
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:47,840
Joan didn't know why but then she pushed

693
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:49,970
to the side and refused to take it well

694
00:25:53,380 --> 00:25:51,890
no one realized that Joan had eaten a

695
00:25:55,780 --> 00:25:53,390
large meal right before she went into

696
00:25:58,060 --> 00:25:55,790
labor in about 30 seconds or so after

697
00:26:00,250 --> 00:25:58,070
she pushed the trialing away she vomited

698
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:00,260
the entire meal had she been in the deep

699
00:26:03,820 --> 00:26:01,910
sleep she would have vomited and

700
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:03,830
probably aspirated may have died from an

701
00:26:09,790 --> 00:26:07,490
aspiration so Joan says that she made it

702
00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:09,800
to Grandma hanlin's lap one last time

703
00:26:15,490 --> 00:26:12,350
there love having transcended time and

704
00:26:18,340 --> 00:26:15,500
all eternity because grandma Hammond had

705
00:26:20,770 --> 00:26:18,350
died 22 years before that mm-hmm

706
00:26:23,350 --> 00:26:20,780
yeah that is another one of those really

707
00:26:25,630 --> 00:26:23,360
good ones and it's also different in

708
00:26:28,540 --> 00:26:25,640
that she was conscious she wasn't

709
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:28,550
necessarily in any kind of near-death

710
00:26:33,820 --> 00:26:30,890
experience where she's seen this figure

711
00:26:36,570 --> 00:26:33,830
outside of her body no she's right there

712
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:36,580
she's just in plain consciousness seeing

713
00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:39,890
you know I guess that dead loved one

714
00:26:44,020 --> 00:26:42,320
a vision yeah and she hadn't had any

715
00:26:46,330 --> 00:26:44,030
pain medication there was no anesthetic

716
00:26:48,460 --> 00:26:46,340
given I mean she was pretty alert and

717
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:48,470
knew what was going on so that was kind

718
00:26:53,770 --> 00:26:51,050
of an interesting story I think some of

719
00:26:57,100 --> 00:26:53,780
the other side lending a hand to comfort

720
00:26:59,140 --> 00:26:57,110
and save a person in trouble yes and I

721
00:27:01,420 --> 00:26:59,150
really like trying to get into the

722
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:01,430
mechanisms of these things and how they

723
00:27:06,220 --> 00:27:03,890
can occur and it's interesting that in

724
00:27:07,690 --> 00:27:06,230
the cases of people who died and then

725
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:07,700
are greeted with a group of relatives

726
00:27:13,390 --> 00:27:10,730
it's interesting that these people or

727
00:27:15,970 --> 00:27:13,400
spirits are always able to be there at

728
00:27:18,730 --> 00:27:15,980
the right time and space and together it

729
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:18,740
makes me wonder if it's possibly some

730
00:27:23,710 --> 00:27:20,960
type of subconscious projection of

731
00:27:26,260 --> 00:27:23,720
things that are comforting or something

732
00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:26,270
other than what it seems at face value

733
00:27:30,220 --> 00:27:28,550
I'm unsure but they're the kind of

734
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:30,230
questions I ask when we see these things

735
00:27:37,630 --> 00:27:35,210
that seem unlikely but often repeat it

736
00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:37,640
is kind of clockwork II when you get

737
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:40,310
into those experiences there's a there's

738
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:42,310
a range but it's not the widest range

739
00:27:48,460 --> 00:27:45,200
yeah the doctors couldn't explain these

740
00:27:50,530 --> 00:27:48,470
things and maybe when people die maybe

741
00:27:52,780 --> 00:27:50,540
when we're close to death we have some

742
00:27:54,190 --> 00:27:52,790
decrease in circulation to the brain and

743
00:27:56,110 --> 00:27:54,200
maybe you can see things and so forth

744
00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:56,120
and so I think something like that

745
00:28:00,190 --> 00:27:58,250
happens on occasion but I think some of

746
00:28:02,380 --> 00:28:00,200
these things that we learn about or

747
00:28:04,990 --> 00:28:02,390
write about or hear about really

748
00:28:06,660 --> 00:28:05,000
something more than that I think there's

749
00:28:09,550 --> 00:28:06,670
something that we simply can't explain

750
00:28:11,050 --> 00:28:09,560
to the docs that told these stories they

751
00:28:13,450 --> 00:28:11,060
seem to point to something higher than

752
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:13,460
us there's something more to this life

753
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:15,200
and just what we have in front of our

754
00:28:18,130 --> 00:28:16,610
eyes here and that's kind of the

755
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:18,140
conclusion that they all came to when

756
00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:21,410
they share these stories mm-hmm and

757
00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:23,420
another one I really like is the dime

758
00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:26,480
because it's not exactly the same but it

759
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,270
is similar to this phenomenon that I

760
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:31,760
know a few people who have expressed

761
00:28:37,210 --> 00:28:34,850
this sort of thing to me where a person

762
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:37,220
has died who's obsessed over something

763
00:28:42,010 --> 00:28:39,890
like a pink flamingo for example and

764
00:28:44,410 --> 00:28:42,020
then four weeks after that person's

765
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:44,420
death they just see so many pink

766
00:28:48,250 --> 00:28:45,890
flamingos everywhere that it's

767
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:48,260
overwhelming and clearly some sort of

768
00:28:52,210 --> 00:28:49,970
sign it's hard to know if they're

769
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:52,220
projecting or if someone from the other

770
00:28:54,940 --> 00:28:53,450
side is stacking up

771
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:54,950
these reminders may be to let their

772
00:28:58,629 --> 00:28:56,809
loved ones know they're okay but it's a

773
00:29:01,240 --> 00:28:58,639
pretty weird aspect to this stuff but it

774
00:29:02,830 --> 00:29:01,250
also seems to be fairly common you know

775
00:29:05,259 --> 00:29:02,840
I think it is and I've heard lots of

776
00:29:06,909 --> 00:29:05,269
stories now after writing this one about

777
00:29:08,980 --> 00:29:06,919
people that have had similar experiences

778
00:29:10,810 --> 00:29:08,990
the dime-store is one of my favorites

779
00:29:13,899 --> 00:29:10,820
it's interesting my editor didn't like

780
00:29:15,850 --> 00:29:13,909
it at first and I rewrote it rewrote it

781
00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:15,860
rewrote it and said I've got to put this

782
00:29:19,539 --> 00:29:17,929
in the book and she finally agreed that

783
00:29:21,940 --> 00:29:19,549
was ok I had written it to her

784
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:21,950
satisfaction it's one of my favorites a

785
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:24,320
story about Steve Graham was an ER doc

786
00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:26,960
at a local hospital who was seeing a guy

787
00:29:30,639 --> 00:29:29,360
that had some abdominal symptoms it

788
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:30,649
wasn't anything real serious and he

789
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:32,450
noticed the other tattoo in his arm that

790
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:33,919
looked a little strange it was a tattoo

791
00:29:38,379 --> 00:29:36,559
of a dime and so Steve asked the fellow

792
00:29:39,940 --> 00:29:38,389
after if the curiosity got to of them he

793
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:39,950
said you know what can you tell me the

794
00:29:44,110 --> 00:29:41,330
story about why would you have a tattoo

795
00:29:46,659 --> 00:29:44,120
of a dime on your arm mazzello says my

796
00:29:48,370 --> 00:29:46,669
son is a claim collector and he collects

797
00:29:51,669 --> 00:29:48,380
all different claims but his favorite

798
00:29:54,009 --> 00:29:51,679
coin is a dime and it seems whenever we

799
00:29:56,590 --> 00:29:54,019
would go to a very special place like a

800
00:29:59,049 --> 00:29:56,600
special dinner or to the Cubs game for

801
00:30:00,399 --> 00:29:59,059
example he would find a dime he pull up

802
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:00,409
the seat and there would be a dime under

803
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:02,090
the seat or he'd moved the plate and

804
00:30:05,740 --> 00:30:03,919
there'd be a dime under the plate and he

805
00:30:07,930 --> 00:30:05,750
started collecting those dimes and he

806
00:30:09,070 --> 00:30:07,940
said my son was tragically killed in an

807
00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:09,080
automobile accident on the expressway

808
00:30:14,500 --> 00:30:12,110
number years ago and ever since then

809
00:30:17,139 --> 00:30:14,510
I've been finding dimes in places that

810
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:17,149
would be special to him and so dr.

811
00:30:20,590 --> 00:30:18,799
Graham thought there was a nice story

812
00:30:22,090 --> 00:30:20,600
he's a polite guy didn't say anything

813
00:30:23,409 --> 00:30:22,100
but he was thinking as kind of an

814
00:30:26,110 --> 00:30:23,419
interesting story but I'm not sure I can

815
00:30:27,970 --> 00:30:26,120
quite buy it and so he took care of the

816
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:27,980
abdominal pain gave him some antibiotic

817
00:30:30,970 --> 00:30:29,330
and sent him on his way and then dr.

818
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:30,980
Graham went back to the doctor's

819
00:30:36,039 --> 00:30:33,110
dictation area where only the doctors

820
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,049
can go to dictate the note on that and

821
00:30:39,399 --> 00:30:38,000
so he pulled out the chair and there was

822
00:30:41,740 --> 00:30:39,409
something shiny on the floor he looked

823
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:41,750
down and there it was a dime on the

824
00:30:44,620 --> 00:30:42,490
floor

825
00:30:46,180 --> 00:30:44,630
Robbie was the name of the boy that died

826
00:30:48,639 --> 00:30:46,190
he said thanks Robbie for helping me

827
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:48,649
believe hmm the interesting thing about

828
00:30:52,629 --> 00:30:50,690
that story is that's not the end I told

829
00:30:54,789 --> 00:30:52,639
that story to my wife and she liked it

830
00:30:56,799 --> 00:30:54,799
she's my first editor so whenever I

831
00:30:59,019 --> 00:30:56,809
write a story I give it to her to edit

832
00:31:01,240 --> 00:30:59,029
and see what she thinks about and so she

833
00:31:03,129 --> 00:31:01,250
liked the story a lot and as she

834
00:31:05,230 --> 00:31:03,139
finished the editing and still checking

835
00:31:06,620 --> 00:31:05,240
and so forth as she put it down and went

836
00:31:10,299 --> 00:31:06,630
to the next room

837
00:31:14,060 --> 00:31:10,309
and there on the counter was a dime

838
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:14,070
hahahaha of course there was ever since

839
00:31:17,899 --> 00:31:15,840
then we've been finding dimes and

840
00:31:19,009 --> 00:31:17,909
strange and unusual places so I don't

841
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:19,019
know what to make of that

842
00:31:22,490 --> 00:31:20,370
there may be something there maybe

843
00:31:23,930 --> 00:31:22,500
nothing but it's kind of cool that

844
00:31:25,879 --> 00:31:23,940
that's happened there was actually

845
00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:25,889
getting dressed one morning putting my

846
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:27,750
pants on and three dimes popped out of

847
00:31:32,860 --> 00:31:30,570
my pocket I don't know you can make it

848
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:32,870
what you want but that was a fun story

849
00:31:37,789 --> 00:31:35,519
there's a another event that happened to

850
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:37,799
me too it reminds me of that a little

851
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:39,360
bit it's not in the book it's about our

852
00:31:43,460 --> 00:31:41,850
vacation we vacation in Cape Cod quite a

853
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:43,470
bit have you ever been to Cape Cod a

854
00:31:48,019 --> 00:31:45,600
couple of times in my childhood yeah

855
00:31:49,610 --> 00:31:48,029
yeah it's a fun place everyone in our

856
00:31:51,019 --> 00:31:49,620
family loves to go to Cape Cod we do

857
00:31:52,850 --> 00:31:51,029
that about every three or four years and

858
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:52,860
we were vacationing there and it was

859
00:31:56,899 --> 00:31:55,110
we're a big family group we love family

860
00:31:59,659 --> 00:31:56,909
things and this was a particularly

861
00:32:02,049 --> 00:31:59,669
special day we had the whole family was

862
00:32:04,610 --> 00:32:02,059
there all the kids and grandkids and

863
00:32:05,810 --> 00:32:04,620
we're having dinner that night it was

864
00:32:07,490 --> 00:32:05,820
one of those kind of events you want to

865
00:32:09,499 --> 00:32:07,500
just pinch yourself it's so perfect the

866
00:32:10,519 --> 00:32:09,509
girls were laughing and talking to each

867
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:10,529
other the kids were running around

868
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,450
chasing bugs and things in the yard and

869
00:32:16,369 --> 00:32:14,399
the boys were cooking because of the

870
00:32:18,169 --> 00:32:16,379
occasion we like to cook and when we're

871
00:32:20,450 --> 00:32:18,179
at the store we saw a whole bunch of

872
00:32:22,129 --> 00:32:20,460
pies stacked up and they were all cherry

873
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:22,139
pies we've bought five for the crowd

874
00:32:25,789 --> 00:32:23,519
which is about how many we need for

875
00:32:28,490 --> 00:32:25,799
dinner and we got to talking about our

876
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:28,500
favorite pie and we decided the mother

877
00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:30,450
who died we used to make rhubarb pie

878
00:32:34,490 --> 00:32:32,220
from a big plant we had in the backyard

879
00:32:36,019 --> 00:32:34,500
and we'd all sneak into the kitchen we

880
00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:36,029
went to visit her and we grabbed our

881
00:32:39,769 --> 00:32:38,129
spoons and germ theory aside we'd go

882
00:32:41,539 --> 00:32:39,779
right into the pie and we'd finish off

883
00:32:43,580 --> 00:32:41,549
the blueberry pie it was delicious it

884
00:32:44,930 --> 00:32:43,590
was really really sweet the best pie

885
00:32:47,749 --> 00:32:44,940
we've ever had and we decided on

886
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:47,759
vacation then if grandma was there she

887
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:49,289
would make us a rhubarb pie but we had

888
00:32:53,869 --> 00:32:51,690
to settle for a cherry pie that night so

889
00:32:55,580 --> 00:32:53,879
we all had a wonderful dinner and again

890
00:32:56,899 --> 00:32:55,590
it was just such a special night it was

891
00:33:00,320 --> 00:32:56,909
one of those special nights we'll never

892
00:33:02,090 --> 00:33:00,330
forget and we finished the swordfish on

893
00:33:04,639 --> 00:33:02,100
the grill and corn on the cob and then

894
00:33:07,409 --> 00:33:04,649
my wife served the cherry pie I took one

895
00:33:10,109 --> 00:33:07,419
bite and suddenly had goose bumps

896
00:33:14,279 --> 00:33:10,119
because it wasn't cherry pie it was a

897
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:14,289
sweet rhubarb pie hmm and a box said

898
00:33:18,599 --> 00:33:16,690
cherry pie on it but the pie was clearly

899
00:33:20,249 --> 00:33:18,609
rhubarb and certainly he could explain

900
00:33:21,749 --> 00:33:20,259
it by saying there was some mix-up in

901
00:33:25,259 --> 00:33:21,759
the factory or the bakery or whatever

902
00:33:27,629 --> 00:33:25,269
but to me it was my mom's way of saying

903
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:27,639
I'm I'm really here enjoying this

904
00:33:34,319 --> 00:33:29,769
special family night with you guys

905
00:33:36,719 --> 00:33:34,329
hmm that is such a nice story and it

906
00:33:39,060 --> 00:33:36,729
does make one wonder because stories

907
00:33:41,009 --> 00:33:39,070
like this and the dime they almost

908
00:33:43,589 --> 00:33:41,019
suggest that people from the other side

909
00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:43,599
are able to manipulate matter or

910
00:33:48,029 --> 00:33:45,700
manipulate objects or put them in place

911
00:33:50,519 --> 00:33:48,039
or get us to move towards things or

912
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:50,529
notice things and you can also pull some

913
00:33:55,589 --> 00:33:53,769
data from the realm of seances and

914
00:33:58,619 --> 00:33:55,599
ritual practice and the more paranormal

915
00:34:01,759 --> 00:33:58,629
type of stuff that goes on but in both

916
00:34:04,109 --> 00:34:01,769
cases it's a strange suggestion that

917
00:34:06,419 --> 00:34:04,119
people on the other side are able to do

918
00:34:09,509 --> 00:34:06,429
that even just regular folks who have

919
00:34:11,339 --> 00:34:09,519
died it just it's an odd mechanism yeah

920
00:34:13,859 --> 00:34:11,349
I'm not sure we can explain it all I

921
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:13,869
think the docs though seem to think that

922
00:34:18,089 --> 00:34:16,210
there is something more that we don't

923
00:34:21,629 --> 00:34:18,099
understand and that people that have

924
00:34:24,029 --> 00:34:21,639
gone beyond before us that our loved

925
00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:24,039
ones may know what we're doing and they

926
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:25,990
may be able to participate in our lives

927
00:34:33,509 --> 00:34:28,169
and some interesting and strange ways

928
00:34:35,789 --> 00:34:33,519
indeed and so another thing that I am

929
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:35,799
really interested in that doesn't

930
00:34:39,990 --> 00:34:37,690
necessarily make it into your book

931
00:34:43,379 --> 00:34:40,000
because it's really not the sort of data

932
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:43,389
that doctors would be familiar with but

933
00:34:49,259 --> 00:34:46,210
there are people who compile these cases

934
00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:49,269
of kids who remember past lives and that

935
00:34:54,029 --> 00:34:51,849
is a weird thing to digest also

936
00:34:56,069 --> 00:34:54,039
sometimes they have some facts about the

937
00:34:58,559 --> 00:34:56,079
person who died that they communicate

938
00:34:59,940 --> 00:34:58,569
with their loved ones and it all checks

939
00:35:01,890 --> 00:34:59,950
out and it's just like one of those

940
00:35:04,410 --> 00:35:01,900
things you can't really get your head

941
00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:04,420
around and then you also factor in the

942
00:35:09,390 --> 00:35:07,049
fact that sometimes people have

943
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:09,400
experiences like the one you shared that

944
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:11,440
can sometimes happen decades after a

945
00:35:15,930 --> 00:35:13,569
person dies where there is still some

946
00:35:18,539 --> 00:35:15,940
kind of clues that they're consciously

947
00:35:20,010 --> 00:35:18,549
with you so to rectify the two things

948
00:35:21,990 --> 00:35:20,020
together is he

949
00:35:24,450 --> 00:35:22,000
crazier I just I just don't know how

950
00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:24,460
both can be true I mean maybe there's a

951
00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:27,310
whole system of choices we make on the

952
00:35:31,770 --> 00:35:29,470
other side of how long we want to wait

953
00:35:34,170 --> 00:35:31,780
to reincarnate or if we can at all but

954
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:34,180
there just is a lot of weirdness and

955
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:36,730
there's a big blind spot for us on this

956
00:35:41,820 --> 00:35:39,610
side of the coin yeah I think we don't

957
00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:41,830
know all the answers and there are some

958
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:44,110
unusual things that happen and again we

959
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,490
didn't have any stories about

960
00:35:49,140 --> 00:35:47,680
reincarnation with the docs but there

961
00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:49,150
are some strange things that happen in

962
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:51,310
this world that make us at least the

963
00:35:54,570 --> 00:35:53,170
doctors came to the conclusion if

964
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:54,580
there's something else out there and

965
00:35:59,160 --> 00:35:57,130
keep your eyes open and look for what it

966
00:36:01,680 --> 00:35:59,170
is and search it out and see if you can

967
00:36:03,780 --> 00:36:01,690
come up with what works for you I think

968
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:03,790
to believe in something that's higher

969
00:36:08,070 --> 00:36:05,890
than us can be very reassuring and can

970
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:08,080
give people hope when these are really

971
00:36:14,190 --> 00:36:11,110
trouble times indeed yes it can

972
00:36:16,110 --> 00:36:14,200
definitely provide some hope but on this

973
00:36:18,090 --> 00:36:16,120
subject if I'm being honest one thing I

974
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:18,100
wasn't crazy about in the book is that a

975
00:36:23,130 --> 00:36:20,530
lot of the authors of these stories give

976
00:36:24,990 --> 00:36:23,140
the credit to God or they use the term

977
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:25,000
heaven for what's described on the other

978
00:36:29,820 --> 00:36:27,310
side and I guess that traditional model

979
00:36:32,460 --> 00:36:29,830
is all we have to express these things

980
00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:32,470
sometimes but in some of the stories I

981
00:36:36,420 --> 00:36:34,480
think the credit should be given to

982
00:36:39,390 --> 00:36:36,430
consciousness more than anything else

983
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:39,400
things like spontaneous precognition or

984
00:36:43,470 --> 00:36:41,530
going one way when you could have gone

985
00:36:45,950 --> 00:36:43,480
another and end up finding someone who

986
00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:45,960
needs help or when you seem to know a

987
00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:48,160
conversation with a loved one is the

988
00:36:53,310 --> 00:36:50,560
last one I think that maybe there's a

989
00:36:55,890 --> 00:36:53,320
lot more to our non-physical selves and

990
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:55,900
we just don't realize it and instead we

991
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,000
chalk everything up to our Father who

992
00:37:02,190 --> 00:36:59,920
art in heaven and I guess I like the

993
00:37:04,260 --> 00:37:02,200
data but sometimes maybe I think we need

994
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:04,270
a more nuanced interpretation of that or

995
00:37:09,900 --> 00:37:06,730
we need a more fleshed out understanding

996
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:09,910
of what consciousness really is again

997
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:12,250
these stories and many stories that we

998
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:14,530
hear I'm not sure we can explain them

999
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:17,200
totally most of the docs were religious

1000
00:37:22,650 --> 00:37:19,510
but not all of them and many of them had

1001
00:37:23,650 --> 00:37:22,660
a religious explanation so I'm leaving

1002
00:37:26,650 --> 00:37:23,660
it up

1003
00:37:29,589 --> 00:37:26,660
to readers to have them decide what it

1004
00:37:32,770 --> 00:37:29,599
means absolutely I think that's the best

1005
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:32,780
approach and I guess the best example of

1006
00:37:36,190 --> 00:37:34,250
this kind of thing I'm talking about

1007
00:37:38,289 --> 00:37:36,200
would be the prayer category we have

1008
00:37:40,569 --> 00:37:38,299
this idea put in our heads that if a

1009
00:37:43,059 --> 00:37:40,579
prayer is answered then it was God

1010
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:43,069
granting our wish so to speak but that

1011
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:45,200
gives no credit to our own power of

1012
00:37:50,349 --> 00:37:47,119
manifestation or our own ability to

1013
00:37:52,089 --> 00:37:50,359
subconsciously sense for example when

1014
00:37:53,950 --> 00:37:52,099
another person is in dire need of help

1015
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:53,960
like the story you talk about on the

1016
00:37:58,450 --> 00:37:56,210
mountain in my opinion these are

1017
00:38:01,450 --> 00:37:58,460
functions of the individual and extreme

1018
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:01,460
states of stress or emotion with no real

1019
00:38:06,670 --> 00:38:03,650
need to invoke an all-powerful creator

1020
00:38:08,349 --> 00:38:06,680
God in these examples which is important

1021
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:08,359
to me because if we outsource these

1022
00:38:13,900 --> 00:38:10,880
situations we won't study them to try to

1023
00:38:16,990 --> 00:38:13,910
work on increasing their frequency but

1024
00:38:18,190 --> 00:38:17,000
they are miraculous regardless yeah

1025
00:38:20,140 --> 00:38:18,200
you know I don't know if anyone can say

1026
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:20,150
for certain what happens in certain

1027
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:22,250
circumstances so when you talk about on

1028
00:38:26,770 --> 00:38:24,079
the mountain is an interesting story I

1029
00:38:28,510 --> 00:38:26,780
was a Steve Haim story who's a trauma

1030
00:38:31,690 --> 00:38:28,520
surgeon an orthopedic surgeon who was

1031
00:38:34,359 --> 00:38:31,700
skiing in Colorado and he got separated

1032
00:38:35,799 --> 00:38:34,369
from his wife and his wife sister in the

1033
00:38:37,420 --> 00:38:35,809
attempt to get back to where they were

1034
00:38:40,660 --> 00:38:37,430
skiing to a grove of trees

1035
00:38:43,870 --> 00:38:40,670
he felt this overwhelming urge to stop

1036
00:38:46,089 --> 00:38:43,880
skiing and he did and he doesn't know

1037
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:46,099
why he decided to take his skis off and

1038
00:38:48,670 --> 00:38:47,569
climb up the mountain in the opposite

1039
00:38:50,829 --> 00:38:48,680
direction from where the girls are

1040
00:38:53,019 --> 00:38:50,839
waiting for him he started to climb up

1041
00:38:55,269 --> 00:38:53,029
the mountain and got about 100 150 feet

1042
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:55,279
up the mountain came to a large pine

1043
00:38:59,529 --> 00:38:57,920
tree and suddenly realized why he was

1044
00:39:00,760 --> 00:38:59,539
there he looked down and there

1045
00:39:02,170 --> 00:39:00,770
underneath the pine tree in the well

1046
00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:02,180
that's formed by the snow that comes

1047
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:03,529
down to the base the tree there was a

1048
00:39:08,109 --> 00:39:06,170
body covered with snow and he wasn't

1049
00:39:09,970 --> 00:39:08,119
sure that person was alive he's a trauma

1050
00:39:12,309 --> 00:39:09,980
surgeon so he know exactly what to do

1051
00:39:13,930 --> 00:39:12,319
brushed off his face and he could see

1052
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:13,940
that he looked like he was dead he had a

1053
00:39:17,049 --> 00:39:15,650
grey face but again being a trauma

1054
00:39:20,289 --> 00:39:17,059
surgeon he reached out and touched his

1055
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:20,299
neck me and a pulse thready pulse but he

1056
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:23,119
had a pulse so he was alive and he went

1057
00:39:25,930 --> 00:39:24,650
into trauma mode did all the things that

1058
00:39:27,490 --> 00:39:25,940
you're supposed to do keep him warm and

1059
00:39:28,180 --> 00:39:27,500
watch the snow off and so forth and was

1060
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:28,190
calling for help

1061
00:39:31,990 --> 00:39:30,710
one of the last skiers down the mountain

1062
00:39:34,210 --> 00:39:32,000
because it was a blizzard at the time

1063
00:39:35,740 --> 00:39:34,220
they could hard to see anything heard is

1064
00:39:36,900 --> 00:39:35,750
tried it came to a side and asked him

1065
00:39:38,820 --> 00:39:36,910
what to do

1066
00:39:40,650 --> 00:39:38,830
you said go find the ski patrol as soon

1067
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:40,660
as you can call them or get them up here

1068
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:42,640
as soon as possible in about 10 or 15

1069
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:44,770
minutes later the ski patrol was coming

1070
00:39:49,590 --> 00:39:47,170
up with a snowmobile a gurney loaded

1071
00:39:51,060 --> 00:39:49,600
this unconscious skier on to a gurney to

1072
00:39:53,460 --> 00:39:51,070
come down to the waiting ambulance and

1073
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:53,470
ship them off to the hospital the next

1074
00:39:58,230 --> 00:39:55,930
day dr. Heim called the hospital to see

1075
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:58,240
what happened to this poor skier and he

1076
00:40:02,670 --> 00:40:00,880
said he's perfectly fine he woke up you

1077
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:02,680
splinted his leg in the field actually

1078
00:40:06,870 --> 00:40:04,570
he did with a tree branch and some of

1079
00:40:09,620 --> 00:40:06,880
his clothes and the splinting was

1080
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:09,630
perfect to keep this leg in position and

1081
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:13,690
he was perfectly fine I asked Steve his

1082
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:15,280
interpretation of what happened there I

1083
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:16,330
guess you can come before the

1084
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:18,010
interpretation but I think his

1085
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:21,280
interpretation was that if his words the

1086
00:40:26,310 --> 00:40:23,850
man above directed me to this skier and

1087
00:40:28,590 --> 00:40:26,320
what's interesting about the story is

1088
00:40:30,330 --> 00:40:28,600
about two years before that dr. Heim and

1089
00:40:32,580 --> 00:40:30,340
his father request country skiing and

1090
00:40:36,270 --> 00:40:32,590
Michigan his father arrested basically

1091
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:36,280
died on the course and Steve did CPR for

1092
00:40:40,380 --> 00:40:38,770
about an hour with an ER doctor and he

1093
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:40,390
wasn't able to save them and since that

1094
00:40:44,460 --> 00:40:42,970
time dr. Heim said I felt guilty that I

1095
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:44,470
couldn't save his life I'm used to

1096
00:40:49,350 --> 00:40:46,960
saving lives not losing them and so he

1097
00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:49,360
had the overwhelming guilt that he had

1098
00:40:53,940 --> 00:40:51,550
failed and when he was given the chance

1099
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:53,950
he says to save this other skier he felt

1100
00:40:57,900 --> 00:40:55,330
that there were two people saved that

1101
00:41:00,690 --> 00:40:57,910
day the skier and himself because his

1102
00:41:02,670 --> 00:41:00,700
grief and his guilt were relieved

1103
00:41:04,830 --> 00:41:02,680
because he realized that life and death

1104
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:04,840
without up to him someone else was in

1105
00:41:09,870 --> 00:41:07,810
charge of that and so he was saved able

1106
00:41:12,050 --> 00:41:09,880
to go on with his life and helpless gear

1107
00:41:14,490 --> 00:41:12,060
that hit the tree was also saved so

1108
00:41:15,270 --> 00:41:14,500
again what happened you can explain it

1109
00:41:17,790 --> 00:41:15,280
in a number of ways

1110
00:41:19,490 --> 00:41:17,800
dr. Heim chose to say that this was

1111
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:19,500
something that came from above

1112
00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:21,970
right and that's an amazing story

1113
00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:24,160
regardless of course I rather chalk it

1114
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:25,630
up to something like psychic

1115
00:41:30,330 --> 00:41:28,450
communication or telekinesis but you

1116
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:30,340
know who knows if there is a third party

1117
00:41:34,350 --> 00:41:32,650
involved it really is impossible to say

1118
00:41:35,550 --> 00:41:34,360
of course I thought I brought you here

1119
00:41:37,830 --> 00:41:35,560
to give me the answers to life death

1120
00:41:40,290 --> 00:41:37,840
universe and everything so I'm a little

1121
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:40,300
disappointed that you don't know I'm

1122
00:41:44,970 --> 00:41:43,210
just messing there I know but your book

1123
00:41:47,070 --> 00:41:44,980
sort of ends with a call for more

1124
00:41:48,510 --> 00:41:47,080
stories I'm sure that they've already

1125
00:41:50,940 --> 00:41:48,520
started coming in

1126
00:41:53,010 --> 00:41:50,950
have enough for a sequel yet yeah we're

1127
00:41:55,860 --> 00:41:53,020
working on that and we're also working

1128
00:41:57,420 --> 00:41:55,870
on a television series we've got a fun

1129
00:41:59,130 --> 00:41:57,430
producer in New York that's done some

1130
00:42:00,750 --> 00:41:59,140
filming and we're just looking for a

1131
00:42:02,490 --> 00:42:00,760
network so if anyone that's involved

1132
00:42:05,100 --> 00:42:02,500
with the network is listening we're

1133
00:42:07,140 --> 00:42:05,110
interested in showing some the trailers

1134
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:07,150
to a network so we're working on a

1135
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:09,370
second book and also a television series

1136
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:11,170
so we're looking forward to that very

1137
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:13,330
cool I know I definitely missed that old

1138
00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:15,370
nineties unsolved mysteries show which

1139
00:42:19,380 --> 00:42:17,200
had a lot of these types of things and

1140
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:19,390
there doesn't seem to be quite the same

1141
00:42:23,970 --> 00:42:22,000
repository for weird stories on

1142
00:42:25,620 --> 00:42:23,980
primetime television as there once was

1143
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:25,630
so worthy cause

1144
00:42:31,770 --> 00:42:29,710
right right very cool well as we start

1145
00:42:34,890 --> 00:42:31,780
to wrap this thing up do remind people

1146
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:34,900
how to find the book and your website or

1147
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:36,730
anything else that they should know if

1148
00:42:40,830 --> 00:42:38,290
they want to dig in a bit deeper

1149
00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:40,840
sure seditions untold stories his name

1150
00:42:44,730 --> 00:42:42,310
of the book it's available primarily

1151
00:42:47,340 --> 00:42:44,740
through Amazon we have a website which

1152
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:47,350
is physicians untold stories calm and

1153
00:42:52,110 --> 00:42:50,170
I'm anxious and excited about hearing

1154
00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:52,120
your stories if you have one to give to

1155
00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:55,510
us it's to our website again I'm working

1156
00:43:00,360 --> 00:42:57,250
a second book and we'll be working other

1157
00:43:01,650 --> 00:43:00,370
books to nurses and religious leaders so

1158
00:43:02,690 --> 00:43:01,660
I think there's lots of stories out

1159
00:43:06,180 --> 00:43:02,700
there that need to be told

1160
00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:06,190
awesome I agree well thanks so much for

1161
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:08,230
reaching out and providing me a copy of

1162
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:10,450
the book I think all these experiences

1163
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:12,880
are super important and it does take a

1164
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:14,770
certain kind of bravery especially if

1165
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:16,960
you're in that sort of field to try to

1166
00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:18,640
bring this stuff out but it is

1167
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:21,310
ultimately very important and hopefully

1168
00:43:25,830 --> 00:43:23,050
we can keep pushing up against the

1169
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:25,840
resistance and be open about things we

1170
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:27,610
can't explain or things that just don't

1171
00:43:34,050 --> 00:43:31,090
fit into the consensus reality box so

1172
00:43:36,330 --> 00:43:34,060
great job it's been a real pleasure keep

1173
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:36,340
doing what you do out there it's been a

1174
00:43:41,970 --> 00:43:38,170
pleasure - Greg thanks so much already

1175
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:41,980
take care okay buh-bye no all right all

1176
00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:45,970
right all right people people people man

1177
00:43:51,180 --> 00:43:48,670
life is no doubt strange and I think

1178
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:51,190
this sort of examination into those rare

1179
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:54,490
moments of high intensity is exactly the

1180
00:43:58,320 --> 00:43:56,170
sort of thing we should be doing or

1181
00:44:02,220 --> 00:43:58,330
should have been doing for the last 200

1182
00:44:04,620 --> 00:44:02,230
plus years but better late than never

1183
00:44:08,130 --> 00:44:04,630
and kudos to dr. Cole baba for dipping

1184
00:44:10,770 --> 00:44:08,140
his toe in you know I get guests from a

1185
00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:10,780
variety of places obviously I hunt a lot

1186
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:11,950
of them down myself

1187
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:14,800
get a lot of them recommended from Plus

1188
00:44:19,830 --> 00:44:17,050
people and the like and I don't want to

1189
00:44:20,930 --> 00:44:19,840
brag but to some publishers I'm kind of

1190
00:44:24,359 --> 00:44:20,940
a big deal now

1191
00:44:26,730 --> 00:44:24,369
but in today's case my man dr. Scott

1192
00:44:29,609 --> 00:44:26,740
actually sent me some info about his

1193
00:44:31,470 --> 00:44:29,619
book himself and having just done a show

1194
00:44:33,570 --> 00:44:31,480
with Alex from skeptic oh I thought this

1195
00:44:37,230 --> 00:44:33,580
was a real opportunity for my skeptical

1196
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:37,240
moment to say yes these stories are all

1197
00:44:42,450 --> 00:44:40,330
interesting these are great case studies

1198
00:44:45,900 --> 00:44:42,460
but maybe we can look at other

1199
00:44:48,090 --> 00:44:45,910
explanations besides well God did it God

1200
00:44:50,910 --> 00:44:48,100
sent me an angel God brought me to the

1201
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:50,920
right time in space etc

1202
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:53,290
and the good doctor can't exactly be

1203
00:44:58,950 --> 00:44:55,690
held responsible for the conclusions and

1204
00:45:01,609 --> 00:44:58,960
tone of other doctors writing their own

1205
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:01,619
accounts as they deem fit

1206
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:03,599
but I just want to say to them if you

1207
00:45:07,249 --> 00:45:05,490
really have a true interest in these

1208
00:45:09,799 --> 00:45:07,259
mysteries take a couple grams of

1209
00:45:12,349 --> 00:45:09,809
psilocybin you know I can't blame

1210
00:45:14,569 --> 00:45:12,359
someone for not wanting to go there but

1211
00:45:16,999 --> 00:45:14,579
you can have these experiences literally

1212
00:45:18,859 --> 00:45:17,009
today and be back in a couple of hours

1213
00:45:21,859 --> 00:45:18,869
and you'll learn so much more than you

1214
00:45:24,559 --> 00:45:21,869
might expect I think people might just

1215
00:45:27,019 --> 00:45:24,569
be afraid to know because honestly this

1216
00:45:29,620 --> 00:45:27,029
stuff is probably safer than driving

1217
00:45:31,690 --> 00:45:29,630
yourself to work if that's your concern

1218
00:45:33,890 --> 00:45:31,700
no one ever does

1219
00:45:36,069 --> 00:45:33,900
but there were a lot of times here where

1220
00:45:38,390 --> 00:45:36,079
I wanted to sort of get dr. Cole Baba

1221
00:45:41,329 --> 00:45:38,400
spitballing and speculating about

1222
00:45:43,489 --> 00:45:41,339
different ideas but it became clear that

1223
00:45:46,069 --> 00:45:43,499
he sort of wanted to just stick to the

1224
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:46,079
stories in the book which is fine with

1225
00:45:49,489 --> 00:45:47,730
me it's much better than a guest who

1226
00:45:51,739 --> 00:45:49,499
doesn't want to talk about the details

1227
00:45:53,930 --> 00:45:51,749
of their book and just says well it's in

1228
00:45:55,759 --> 00:45:53,940
there check it out obviously that's the

1229
00:45:58,789 --> 00:45:55,769
worst situation for a listening audience

1230
00:46:01,099 --> 00:45:58,799
so I took my shot at my skeptic Oh

1231
00:46:03,319 --> 00:46:01,109
inspired approach to interviewing but I

1232
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:03,329
didn't want to push too hard or offend

1233
00:46:08,049 --> 00:46:05,249
the good doctor and you can only hear I

1234
00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:08,059
don't know as an answer so many times

1235
00:46:12,799 --> 00:46:10,680
but none of us know that's the point of

1236
00:46:15,289 --> 00:46:12,809
speculating and considering all the

1237
00:46:18,289 --> 00:46:15,299
angles and how something like life after

1238
00:46:20,269 --> 00:46:18,299
life actually works and how separate but

1239
00:46:23,359 --> 00:46:20,279
equally strange phenomena might be

1240
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:23,369
related and there are nuances to all of

1241
00:46:28,609 --> 00:46:25,890
this too and of course I wanted to try

1242
00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:28,619
and unpack those aspects for example I

1243
00:46:32,329 --> 00:46:30,660
brought up that it doesn't seem like we

1244
00:46:34,670 --> 00:46:32,339
have much of a choice when it comes to

1245
00:46:36,349 --> 00:46:34,680
whether we come back or not and I'm

1246
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:36,359
talking about that stage when you're

1247
00:46:40,759 --> 00:46:38,970
already out of the body already talking

1248
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:40,769
to your dead loved ones and in that

1249
00:46:45,979 --> 00:46:43,529
exact space most of the tales I hear

1250
00:46:48,170 --> 00:46:45,989
involve a person just being pretty out

1251
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:48,180
of their element and some wise dead

1252
00:46:53,269 --> 00:46:50,400
relatives telling them you're going back

1253
00:46:56,420 --> 00:46:53,279
bro and I just find it fascinating that

1254
00:47:00,049 --> 00:46:56,430
these spirits these guardians or

1255
00:47:02,029 --> 00:47:00,059
liaisons or Usher's they always seem to

1256
00:47:03,769 --> 00:47:02,039
have some insight they never seem

1257
00:47:04,970 --> 00:47:03,779
surprised they're never like oh wait

1258
00:47:07,579 --> 00:47:04,980
Mike what are you doing where are you

1259
00:47:10,549 --> 00:47:07,589
going come back you know it's never

1260
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:10,559
described like that you don't surprise

1261
00:47:15,230 --> 00:47:13,050
the spirits they surprise you

1262
00:47:17,150 --> 00:47:15,240
and I also kind of touched on that point

1263
00:47:20,060 --> 00:47:17,160
that isn't it kind of fascinating that

1264
00:47:22,550 --> 00:47:20,070
our dead loved ones are always able to

1265
00:47:24,770 --> 00:47:22,560
just congregate at the right time and

1266
00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:24,780
space at the moment of our death the

1267
00:47:29,540 --> 00:47:27,420
other side has to be very disorienting

1268
00:47:32,330 --> 00:47:29,550
do you experience time and space the

1269
00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:32,340
same way can you just consciously travel

1270
00:47:38,690 --> 00:47:35,160
to that exact location how do you know

1271
00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:38,700
when you're living son is about to die

1272
00:47:42,620 --> 00:47:40,500
so that you can get bedside for his

1273
00:47:45,530 --> 00:47:42,630
out-of-body experience it's it's strange

1274
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:45,540
right I mean we have to consider how

1275
00:47:50,990 --> 00:47:49,290
that works and maybe it's not who we

1276
00:47:53,150 --> 00:47:51,000
think it is maybe this isn't our dead

1277
00:47:55,780 --> 00:47:53,160
relatives maybe it's a projection from

1278
00:47:58,550 --> 00:47:55,790
the deep recesses of our subconscious

1279
00:48:00,890 --> 00:47:58,560
maybe it's an aspect just like the life

1280
00:48:04,130 --> 00:48:00,900
review that just kind of happens as a

1281
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:04,140
mechanism during the process of death or

1282
00:48:09,980 --> 00:48:07,170
maybe we are on some human energy farm

1283
00:48:11,870 --> 00:48:09,990
and when we die trickster entities

1284
00:48:16,060 --> 00:48:11,880
wearing the masks of our dead loved ones

1285
00:48:18,590 --> 00:48:16,070
are there to usher us into the light

1286
00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:18,600
maybe I'm the weird one to even consider

1287
00:48:22,940 --> 00:48:21,180
these other possibilities but then dr.

1288
00:48:25,370 --> 00:48:22,950
Scott brought up some situations where a

1289
00:48:28,190 --> 00:48:25,380
person either holds on for a while to

1290
00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:28,200
say goodbye to a specific person or they

1291
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:30,840
wait until a spouse says it's okay to

1292
00:48:35,750 --> 00:48:33,359
let go and then they die and yes there

1293
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:35,760
are cases there where people actually

1294
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:38,160
die on command they sort of transition

1295
00:48:43,730 --> 00:48:41,520
at will and I don't deny the flexibility

1296
00:48:45,890 --> 00:48:43,740
there but that is a completely different

1297
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:45,900
situation a completely different aspect

1298
00:48:51,740 --> 00:48:49,200
of the death process just as interesting

1299
00:48:54,050 --> 00:48:51,750
but it seems to be one of those semi

1300
00:48:57,050 --> 00:48:54,060
automatic will driven aspects of our

1301
00:49:01,150 --> 00:48:57,060
bodies it's like instinctual but

1302
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:01,160
somewhat guy double and I think clearly

1303
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:03,450
distinct from someone who's already out

1304
00:49:09,260 --> 00:49:06,570
of their body wondering if they're gonna

1305
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:09,270
be coming back or going forward of

1306
00:49:14,510 --> 00:49:11,250
course I don't know but it was fun to

1307
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:14,520
get into we talk a lot on the show about

1308
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:16,710
the elite sort of presenting us with

1309
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:19,290
pre-approved boxes and I think for a lot

1310
00:49:24,530 --> 00:49:22,530
of people you do the material atheism

1311
00:49:26,500 --> 00:49:24,540
thing until you have an experience that

1312
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:26,510
shakes that foundation

1313
00:49:31,330 --> 00:49:28,490
and you look around and all that's there

1314
00:49:33,370 --> 00:49:31,340
is a conventional Abrahamic bearded man

1315
00:49:35,770 --> 00:49:33,380
in the clouds heaven and hell type of

1316
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:35,780
paradigm if you want to relate to other

1317
00:49:38,710 --> 00:49:37,910
people I mean that's kind of the only

1318
00:49:40,810 --> 00:49:38,720
way to do it

1319
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:40,820
you're not gonna relate to the average

1320
00:49:45,730 --> 00:49:43,730
guy with the weird [\h__\h] we get into so I

1321
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:45,740
understand that tendency I understand

1322
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:48,800
how it happens and I think dr. Cole Baba

1323
00:49:53,609 --> 00:49:51,650
is a lot more open-minded than some of

1324
00:49:56,530 --> 00:49:53,619
those people but generally speaking we

1325
00:49:59,140 --> 00:49:56,540
do look for those worldviews and sort of

1326
00:50:01,990 --> 00:49:59,150
swing from one to another

1327
00:50:03,550 --> 00:50:02,000
like Tarzan uses vines and instead I

1328
00:50:06,730 --> 00:50:03,560
think we kind of have to sort of braid

1329
00:50:09,010 --> 00:50:06,740
our own vines don't just you know look

1330
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:09,020
for boxes look for models and jump from

1331
00:50:14,020 --> 00:50:11,810
model to model I don't think any of them

1332
00:50:16,030 --> 00:50:14,030
are a hundred percent but it's good to

1333
00:50:18,940 --> 00:50:16,040
see the value and them take what's good

1334
00:50:20,650 --> 00:50:18,950
and discard the rest but the god thing

1335
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:20,660
is sort of like the realm of politics

1336
00:50:25,599 --> 00:50:23,210
where people give so much credit and

1337
00:50:28,450 --> 00:50:25,609
sway to the president as if any

1338
00:50:30,220 --> 00:50:28,460
governmental political or social effect

1339
00:50:32,099 --> 00:50:30,230
on their life is a direct experience

1340
00:50:35,020 --> 00:50:32,109
with that president you know what I mean

1341
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:35,030
that's how I feel about chalking every

1342
00:50:40,359 --> 00:50:38,240
strange experience up to God you know

1343
00:50:41,950 --> 00:50:40,369
Obama didn't find you a job you went out

1344
00:50:44,830 --> 00:50:41,960
and put in the work and you found one

1345
00:50:46,810 --> 00:50:44,840
the unemployment rate is a factor but it

1346
00:50:49,630 --> 00:50:46,820
doesn't really have a ton to do with the

1347
00:50:52,180 --> 00:50:49,640
President himself or you yourself if

1348
00:50:54,310 --> 00:50:52,190
you've been out of work for awhile and

1349
00:50:57,580 --> 00:50:54,320
someone finds your resume and gives you

1350
00:50:59,650 --> 00:50:57,590
a job you don't think Obama for lowering

1351
00:51:02,140 --> 00:50:59,660
the unemployment rate enough for you to

1352
00:51:03,609 --> 00:51:02,150
break through you could say the

1353
00:51:05,650 --> 00:51:03,619
president had something to do with the

1354
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:05,660
conditions in which you were able to get

1355
00:51:10,810 --> 00:51:07,609
a job or the chances with which you

1356
00:51:13,030 --> 00:51:10,820
would have success and maybe there is

1357
00:51:15,370 --> 00:51:13,040
something called God that we could give

1358
00:51:17,260 --> 00:51:15,380
credit to some of the conditions with

1359
00:51:19,150 --> 00:51:17,270
which we are able to help ourselves or

1360
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:19,160
our consciousness is able to find a guy

1361
00:51:25,359 --> 00:51:21,970
trapped on a mountain and save his life

1362
00:51:27,370 --> 00:51:25,369
but I think the actual spiritual entity

1363
00:51:30,310 --> 00:51:27,380
we might call God or the force or

1364
00:51:33,060 --> 00:51:30,320
whatever is way more removed from your

1365
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:33,070
individual experience than we sometimes

1366
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:36,890
give it credit for I mean I find it

1367
00:51:40,359 --> 00:51:38,510
difficult to understand how someone

1368
00:51:42,279 --> 00:51:40,369
could think these experiences were

1369
00:51:44,380 --> 00:51:42,289
late to some man in the clouds deciding

1370
00:51:47,019 --> 00:51:44,390
on a whim to let you stay around for a

1371
00:51:48,730 --> 00:51:47,029
little longer the concept just makes no

1372
00:51:51,549 --> 00:51:48,740
sense with all the death and suffering

1373
00:51:53,380 --> 00:51:51,559
on the planet I mean in a world where

1374
00:51:56,079 --> 00:51:53,390
this supposed Guardian is letting

1375
00:51:58,989 --> 00:51:56,089
thousands of Syrians rot in refugee

1376
00:52:01,569 --> 00:51:58,999
camps and letting millions starve slowly

1377
00:52:03,819 --> 00:52:01,579
before they even hit puberty but God

1378
00:52:06,370 --> 00:52:03,829
just decided to throw you a bone on a

1379
00:52:09,009 --> 00:52:06,380
Tuesday so you could work at AT&T for a

1380
00:52:11,079 --> 00:52:09,019
few more years I mean I hate to be so

1381
00:52:13,150 --> 00:52:11,089
critical but it's not like God saves

1382
00:52:15,759 --> 00:52:13,160
someone and then they transform the

1383
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:15,769
world right most people just continue to

1384
00:52:21,489 --> 00:52:18,650
live simple humble lives with corporate

1385
00:52:23,799 --> 00:52:21,499
jobs so why would God want to extend

1386
00:52:26,819 --> 00:52:23,809
your life ten years just so you can

1387
00:52:29,799 --> 00:52:26,829
finish out the Avengers movie story arc

1388
00:52:31,870 --> 00:52:29,809
doesn't it make so much more sense that

1389
00:52:34,299 --> 00:52:31,880
there are aspects of our non-physical

1390
00:52:36,489 --> 00:52:34,309
selves that we don't understand that we

1391
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:36,499
have abilities and high stress or

1392
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:38,450
emotionally heightened situations to do

1393
00:52:43,569 --> 00:52:39,920
amazing things that defy the

1394
00:52:45,460 --> 00:52:43,579
conventional worldview to me that is the

1395
00:52:47,559 --> 00:52:45,470
best explanation for the seemingly

1396
00:52:49,420 --> 00:52:47,569
random selection of these paranormal

1397
00:52:53,589 --> 00:52:49,430
experiences or whatever you want to call

1398
00:52:55,269 --> 00:52:53,599
them Xtranormal perhaps I mean this is

1399
00:52:57,839 --> 00:52:55,279
the criticism that we've always had of

1400
00:53:00,880 --> 00:52:57,849
the Abrahamic religions of the Vatican

1401
00:53:03,130 --> 00:53:00,890
that they take away your power of direct

1402
00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:03,140
experience they come in and they say

1403
00:53:09,579 --> 00:53:06,319
look don't practice magic yourself don't

1404
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:09,589
talk to spirits yourself just tell me

1405
00:53:13,269 --> 00:53:11,839
about it and throw me a couple bucks and

1406
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:13,279
then sure everything's gonna work out

1407
00:53:17,890 --> 00:53:15,410
for you I think we're still dealing

1408
00:53:20,319 --> 00:53:17,900
mentally with who gets the

1409
00:53:23,170 --> 00:53:20,329
responsibility or the credit for some of

1410
00:53:25,870 --> 00:53:23,180
these weird things I think if you just

1411
00:53:29,729 --> 00:53:25,880
explore psychedelics a bit or meditation

1412
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:29,739
if you're a bit of a puss jk jk I

1413
00:53:33,849 --> 00:53:31,970
honestly would just say meditation is

1414
00:53:36,009 --> 00:53:33,859
like running a marathon and then waiting

1415
00:53:37,599 --> 00:53:36,019
into the water and psychedelics are like

1416
00:53:40,539 --> 00:53:37,609
rolling out of bed and jumping off the

1417
00:53:42,999 --> 00:53:40,549
high dive both of them get you there but

1418
00:53:45,460 --> 00:53:43,009
who has the time and the energy to run a

1419
00:53:48,670 --> 00:53:45,470
marathon when tossing something down my

1420
00:53:49,809 --> 00:53:48,680
gullet is just so much easier I'm not

1421
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:49,819
saying it's right or wrong I'm just

1422
00:53:55,630 --> 00:53:53,119
saying I know myself and you could also

1423
00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:55,640
expand these ideas to say the same thing

1424
00:54:00,220 --> 00:53:57,650
about magic - how many guests have we

1425
00:54:02,579 --> 00:54:00,230
talked to out there that seemingly broke

1426
00:54:05,109 --> 00:54:02,589
reality and got results that defy logic

1427
00:54:08,589 --> 00:54:05,119
because they recreated the actions in

1428
00:54:10,930 --> 00:54:08,599
some 500 year old grimoire more than a

1429
00:54:13,299 --> 00:54:10,940
handful it's like the abyss is right

1430
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:13,309
there waiting for you but honestly magic

1431
00:54:17,589 --> 00:54:15,890
is very hard - if you're gonna do it

1432
00:54:19,989 --> 00:54:17,599
right and it depends on how you define

1433
00:54:21,489 --> 00:54:19,999
magic some consider just manifesting a

1434
00:54:23,620 --> 00:54:21,499
sandwich from your refrigerator when

1435
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:23,630
you're hungry as a magical act and

1436
00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:26,210
touche of those people but I'm talking

1437
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:30,470
about paradigm breaking ritual magic you

1438
00:54:35,109 --> 00:54:32,569
know you hear this term mindfulness a

1439
00:54:37,660 --> 00:54:35,119
lot got a practice mindfulness but

1440
00:54:39,970 --> 00:54:37,670
honestly try to do it for a week like

1441
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:39,980
every minute of the day and then think

1442
00:54:43,630 --> 00:54:41,839
back over the week at all the things you

1443
00:54:47,019 --> 00:54:43,640
might have wanted to do but didn't I

1444
00:54:49,539 --> 00:54:47,029
kind of do this a lot now so a week ends

1445
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:49,549
and I think wow I didn't do any exercise

1446
00:54:54,339 --> 00:54:52,249
that would have taken me about 10 to 15

1447
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:54,349
minutes a day to do some push-ups and

1448
00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:55,730
sit-ups and feel a bit better about

1449
00:55:00,489 --> 00:54:58,400
myself I didn't follow through on some

1450
00:55:02,289 --> 00:55:00,499
of my magic goals mapping out the next

1451
00:55:04,479 --> 00:55:02,299
month's calendar consulting the

1452
00:55:07,089 --> 00:55:04,489
astrology for when to best record my

1453
00:55:10,450 --> 00:55:07,099
interviews sending out a few sigil

1454
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:10,460
Shoals all that's maybe three or four

1455
00:55:14,020 --> 00:55:12,170
hours worth of stuff

1456
00:55:15,819 --> 00:55:14,030
I also didn't finish reading any of the

1457
00:55:17,980 --> 00:55:15,829
books I bought recently Jordan

1458
00:55:20,349 --> 00:55:17,990
Peterson's 12 rules to life Charles

1459
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:20,359
forts the book of the Damned or the Tom

1460
00:55:24,010 --> 00:55:22,250
DeLonge Peter Levin de book that I just

1461
00:55:25,930 --> 00:55:24,020
wanted to see for myself what it

1462
00:55:28,420 --> 00:55:25,940
contained didn't do any of that either

1463
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:28,430
didn't even crack the covers where did

1464
00:55:33,700 --> 00:55:31,250
the time go well I watched the entire

1465
00:55:36,039 --> 00:55:33,710
Flint town series on Netflix there are

1466
00:55:37,780 --> 00:55:36,049
six hours right there I watched wild

1467
00:55:39,609 --> 00:55:37,790
wild country about the cult that took

1468
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:39,619
over Antelope Oregon that was about

1469
00:55:43,780 --> 00:55:42,079
eight hours probably scrolled my stupid

1470
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:43,790
phone for at least two or three hours

1471
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:46,250
cumulatively a day played at least an

1472
00:55:51,940 --> 00:55:48,530
hour or more of overwatch pretty much

1473
00:55:54,309 --> 00:55:51,950
every day so there it is there is so so

1474
00:55:56,109 --> 00:55:54,319
much time and to truly practice

1475
00:55:58,120 --> 00:55:56,119
mindfulness is to really be honest about

1476
00:56:00,880 --> 00:55:58,130
the choices you make as you're making

1477
00:56:03,039 --> 00:56:00,890
them and recognizing that you sacrificed

1478
00:56:05,710 --> 00:56:03,049
a lot of goals you might have had for

1479
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:05,720
some filler [\h__\h] and what's the

1480
00:56:09,220 --> 00:56:07,609
point well I guess my point was that

1481
00:56:11,859 --> 00:56:09,230
magic takes a lot of effort and planning

1482
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:11,869
and it provides a lot of answers to and

1483
00:56:17,289 --> 00:56:14,930
I doubt even 1% of the population truly

1484
00:56:19,059 --> 00:56:17,299
does that work yet so many people are

1485
00:56:21,099 --> 00:56:19,069
just sitting around wondering if spirits

1486
00:56:22,539 --> 00:56:21,109
are real or hearing about other people's

1487
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:22,549
experiences and you really could be

1488
00:56:27,609 --> 00:56:24,650
having your own if you dedicated some

1489
00:56:29,710 --> 00:56:27,619
time to the exploration would you rather

1490
00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:29,720
commune with infinite intelligences on

1491
00:56:33,490 --> 00:56:31,730
the astral plane and VOC a trickster at

1492
00:56:36,010 --> 00:56:33,500
the crossroads or Sid you'll show your

1493
00:56:37,809 --> 00:56:36,020
way to a serious level up in life or

1494
00:56:40,359 --> 00:56:37,819
would you rather unlock a new perk and

1495
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:40,369
call of duty like these are the

1496
00:56:45,309 --> 00:56:43,520
decisions we're making every day and I'm

1497
00:56:48,099 --> 00:56:45,319
not trying to be preachy Daren and

1498
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:48,109
Graham all right I'm honestly trying to

1499
00:56:52,510 --> 00:56:50,210
be convincing enough to take my own

1500
00:56:54,609 --> 00:56:52,520
advice but I guess I'm just trying to

1501
00:56:56,380 --> 00:56:54,619
say that even though my own level of

1502
00:56:59,530 --> 00:56:56,390
understanding is probably like a three

1503
00:57:01,569 --> 00:56:59,540
on a 10 scale I'm having less patience

1504
00:57:02,950 --> 00:57:01,579
and less empathy for people who prop up

1505
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:02,960
what I consider to be pretty simplistic

1506
00:57:08,020 --> 00:57:05,930
models when we do have access to all

1507
00:57:10,510 --> 00:57:08,030
these tools and methods of exploration

1508
00:57:13,390 --> 00:57:10,520
if we didn't then how could you blame

1509
00:57:15,730 --> 00:57:13,400
someone but we do so you can

1510
00:57:17,650 --> 00:57:15,740
and I'm not even trying to pass judgment

1511
00:57:19,810 --> 00:57:17,660
on anyone specifically who told a story

1512
00:57:21,820 --> 00:57:19,820
in dr. Cole Baba's book or dr. Cole

1513
00:57:24,190 --> 00:57:21,830
bhava himself I'm just speaking

1514
00:57:27,220 --> 00:57:24,200
generally to you guys who are still here

1515
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:27,230
after taking that ride I do have respect

1516
00:57:32,020 --> 00:57:29,570
for people in conventional careers where

1517
00:57:34,750 --> 00:57:32,030
even these stories raise the eyebrows of

1518
00:57:36,180 --> 00:57:34,760
their more stoic colleagues but maybe a

1519
00:57:38,740 --> 00:57:36,190
big takeaway from this whole experience

1520
00:57:41,590 --> 00:57:38,750
if I was one of the doctors in the book

1521
00:57:44,590 --> 00:57:41,600
would be that most of the judgment and

1522
00:57:46,870 --> 00:57:44,600
criticism is hypothetical or mostly in

1523
00:57:48,550 --> 00:57:46,880
your head because I doubt it affected

1524
00:57:50,020 --> 00:57:48,560
the careers of these doctors very much

1525
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:50,030
it's not like they're attacking the

1526
00:57:54,340 --> 00:57:51,770
bottom line of Big Pharma by coming out

1527
00:57:55,750 --> 00:57:54,350
against vaccines or anything so we

1528
00:57:58,720 --> 00:57:55,760
should be honest and open about

1529
00:58:00,730 --> 00:57:58,730
weirdness I think that fear of judgment

1530
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:00,740
culture has been one of the many tools

1531
00:58:05,620 --> 00:58:02,690
used to keep us from finding the answers

1532
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:05,630
answers that themselves have been

1533
00:58:09,340 --> 00:58:08,210
naturally elusive made worse by an elite

1534
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:09,350
who would rather you just do your

1535
00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:10,130
goddamn job

1536
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:13,310
I like dr. Scott I don't want to put him

1537
00:58:17,830 --> 00:58:15,680
on blast but just to further the point I

1538
00:58:20,050 --> 00:58:17,840
asked about some of the data and he was

1539
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:20,060
unsure and mentioned that outside of

1540
00:58:23,770 --> 00:58:22,250
compiling stories for this book he

1541
00:58:25,570 --> 00:58:23,780
hasn't had a ton of time because he's

1542
00:58:28,810 --> 00:58:25,580
raising kids and focused on this

1543
00:58:30,490 --> 00:58:28,820
demanding career I get that but if we

1544
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:30,500
don't prioritize mysteries of

1545
00:58:36,250 --> 00:58:32,450
consciousness what do we have time for

1546
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:36,260
as Alex might say and again I'm just as

1547
00:58:40,540 --> 00:58:38,450
guilty of not finding enough time for

1548
00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:40,550
that I think we all are so it's not a

1549
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:43,310
slight per se just a counterpoint to say

1550
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:45,650
we all have more time than we think and

1551
00:58:52,870 --> 00:58:48,650
we should make room on the priority list

1552
00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:52,880
for this stuff so I do wish dr. Cole

1553
00:58:57,670 --> 00:58:55,520
Baba great success and luck on his

1554
00:58:59,680 --> 00:58:57,680
journey it's great that he's working on

1555
00:59:01,120 --> 00:58:59,690
another book compiling more stories but

1556
00:59:03,100 --> 00:59:01,130
I would actually like to see him dig

1557
00:59:05,590 --> 00:59:03,110
deeper into the whys and how's of the

1558
00:59:08,140 --> 00:59:05,600
stories he already has we got enough

1559
00:59:09,790 --> 00:59:08,150
material to talk about what happens but

1560
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:09,800
we still need to flesh out those whys

1561
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:12,650
and how's many more beans could be

1562
00:59:18,660 --> 00:59:14,450
answering those prayers it ain't always

1563
00:59:21,010 --> 00:59:18,670
Jesus in fact what if it's never Jesus

1564
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:21,020
regardless I'm also aware that not

1565
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:23,210
everyone thinks like me and everyone is

1566
00:59:26,650 --> 00:59:24,770
at a different point in the journey and

1567
00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:26,660
dr. Scott's book is a real

1568
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:28,910
a crowbar to pry open the doors a lot of

1569
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:30,770
us out there have shut because of our

1570
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:32,810
adoption of conventional models like

1571
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:36,410
material atheism for example so many of

1572
00:59:40,390 --> 00:59:38,090
you have a friend or family member who

1573
00:59:42,460 --> 00:59:40,400
could use a lighter touch who could use

1574
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:42,470
some breadcrumbs to lead them back to

1575
00:59:45,940 --> 00:59:44,450
the rest of us now we don't want to

1576
00:59:48,130 --> 00:59:45,950
throw them right into the deep end of

1577
00:59:50,860 --> 00:59:48,140
the pool and for that person in your

1578
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:50,870
life the good doctors book is excellent

1579
00:59:54,970 --> 00:59:53,210
even as just a reminder to ourselves

1580
00:59:57,070 --> 00:59:54,980
it's nice to have a collection of these

1581
00:59:58,540 --> 00:59:57,080
stories on the shelf so big thanks to

1582
01:00:01,300 --> 00:59:58,550
him for being here and for doing the

1583
01:00:04,330 --> 01:00:01,310
work it's a little shorter episode than

1584
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:04,340
usual but we do still have a free n plus

1585
01:00:08,620 --> 01:00:07,040
split and plus members got an extra show

1586
01:00:09,310 --> 01:00:08,630
entirely this month with Laurie

1587
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:09,320
Hanrahan's

1588
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:11,690
exploration of the pedophile mindset

1589
01:00:16,540 --> 01:00:14,450
practices and networks obviously a dark

1590
01:00:19,570 --> 01:00:16,550
one but you're welcome for the extra

1591
01:00:22,210 --> 01:00:19,580
show and in the plus portion today we

1592
01:00:24,610 --> 01:00:22,220
talked about dr. Cole Baba's burning bus

1593
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:24,620
story recounting the miracles in our own

1594
01:00:29,110 --> 01:00:26,930
lives that we might have forgotten dr.

1595
01:00:32,230 --> 01:00:29,120
Cole Baba's own experience of Jack

1596
01:00:34,570 --> 01:00:32,240
Sparrow Anette and how often the good

1597
01:00:38,050 --> 01:00:34,580
doctor sees the placebo effect and

1598
01:00:39,730 --> 01:00:38,060
spontaneous healing in his practice so

1599
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:39,740
more fun stories to break that

1600
01:00:43,740 --> 01:00:41,930
mainstream model who doesn't love that

1601
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:43,750
big thanks to everyone for listening

1602
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:46,880
solid month of shows dr. Paul Laviolette

1603
01:00:52,510 --> 01:00:49,730
on antigravity crafts pulsars and super

1604
01:00:54,910 --> 01:00:52,520
waves max Egan on social credits and a

1605
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:54,920
whole host of other stuff Alex acara

1606
01:01:00,460 --> 01:00:57,050
stalking skeptic Oh consciousness and

1607
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:00,470
comedy and johnbritain the gut fixer

1608
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:02,690
himself and just so you know his

1609
01:01:08,410 --> 01:01:05,090
protocol has radically reduced my

1610
01:01:10,180 --> 01:01:08,420
allergy issues about 70% I'd say I've

1611
01:01:12,130 --> 01:01:10,190
honestly never been more impressed and

1612
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:12,140
the dude knows his [\h__\h] and he's gonna

1613
01:01:17,590 --> 01:01:15,290
be back very soon but I would say it's

1614
01:01:20,350 --> 01:01:17,600
been a good diverse month of higher side

1615
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:20,360
topics and I'll see you next time your

1616
01:01:23,980 --> 01:01:22,250
move molders the materialist model

1617
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:23,990
quarantine ears of consciousness and

1618
01:01:30,460 --> 01:01:27,050
naysayers of the near-death experience

1619
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:40,210
oh no you see no world isn't random it's

1620
01:01:52,030 --> 01:01:45,760
attached above our strength control over

1621
01:02:00,530 --> 01:01:52,040
everything a 95 is trying to steal yeah

1622
01:02:12,670 --> 01:02:05,250
should I play rather chordates I'm some

1623
01:02:26,539 --> 01:02:18,049
I'll be thankful when it's exposed and

1624
01:02:28,780 --> 01:02:26,549
see such a difference between and I'm

1625
01:03:25,240 --> 01:02:28,790
dead

1626
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:25,250
[Music]

1627
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:32,690
oh no they're cartoons it's so typical

1628
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:37,490
of me to talk about this stuff I'm sorry

1629
01:03:50,170 --> 01:03:45,970
there's good and well did you ever hear

1630
01:03:51,030 --> 01:03:50,180
argument the nothing really happens it's

1631
01:03:55,830 --> 01:03:51,040
no secret

1632
01:05:49,770 --> 01:03:55,840
[Music]